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[AlFike]

Just a note Doles, I really do not believe that the murder of these children serves a higher purpose if that is what you intended to say. Taking of a life serves no higher purpose and this act is senseless and cruel. I know you agree and are trying to find meaning in it. On a human level, it is a message that guns are evil. Having a gun is an invitation to do violence in the world. If these children's deaths bring home this point then there has been some small positive outcome from this sinful act. God gives life and nurtures it. Of course there is a natural end to things but this incident was not natural in any respect. All those beautiful children and adults had their lives cut short for no good reason and there are many more that we do not hear about that die from starvation and deprivation that is not meant to be. We created the conditions for this tragedy and so many more and this is why those of us here are trying to change the conditions of the world in our own small way. Change starts with inner growth and accelerated change can happen from the blessing of God's Love. Being a channel of God's Love in the world is a powerful antidote to all the evil that exists here. I hope you will join us in this cause to bring love to this world. We are few but we are commited and willing to follow God's will in the battle that Geoff alludes to. I'm sorry to lecture you as I have. I do get a little carried away but I could not let the idea that I think You and Geoff presented go by without giving my 2 cents worth. I hope you will continue the conversation. God bless for now.......Al

[Geoff]

Dear Al,

There is a very important point that you are overlooking. While you focus on Father, in the sense that He would not plan for any of His children to be murdered, we do know that He takes advantage of everything. And that is the aspect that I believe I and Doles were looking at. For example I saw a message that indicated that the spiritual "gains" resulting from Jesus' crucifixion has already been enormous. In other words, the silver lining can be greater than the nastiness that originated. If the loss of these precious children causes gun controls to be applied, the gains will be enormous. It was recently calculated that we in Australia have saved $500m a year since implementing tougher gun legislation. That's for 20m people. So the US would actually save money by being tough on military style weapons.

hugs
Geoff

[Doles]

Dear Al,
I have not much to add to Geoff's point since I believe it hits straight. I don't believe we're on the opposite ends on this one. I was just implying (as Geoff more eloquently elaborated) that perhaps they were part of a greater mission. Had I completely believed that this was indeed the main mission, their deaths would not have nudged me to such extent. While I do not believe that The Eternal Soul would have sent people to such extreme ends, I do think that perhaps some souls might have volunteered (or probably making up for previous wrongs? (obviously a reference to reincarnation, which I do have a problem with)) themselves for a cause when all else fails? Again, I'm just pondering in the midst of such carnage if perhaps there was a greater plan we couldn't see. I wouldn't venture to say I know for sure.

[jeanne]

This discussion reminds me of our son's circumstances....that is, that there is a "silver lining" following the self destructive path of pain that he has chosen. I believe Eric's succumbing to negative forces and the lessons he's learned (still learning) will be used to help others as he is now choosing to follow the light. His has been a painful journey....not only for himself, but for all of us connected to him.
As a result of the negative choices he's made I believe I have become stronger in The Love as I turned to prayer. We've been told repeatedly that in time he would choose the light. We've also been told that this time and the lessons he's been learning are not wasted. While I believe he is being used as a channel of comfort and love for others in prison, I don't think the choices he made have been part of God's plan. I'm still trying to make sense of it all....one day I will come to understand more. Love Jeanne

[Geoff]

While I believe he is being used as a channel of comfort and love for others in prison, I don't think the choices he made have been part of God's plan. I'm still trying to make sense of it all....one day I will come to understand more. Love Jeanne

Dear Jeanne,

The problem is this bit : "God's Plan."

It is common to ascribe everything to "Gods Plan", but we have free will. What God has to do, is work with what we do. So I agree that its not "God's Plan" (as in what God wanted to happen) to have Eric do things that caused him to end up in jail. But God now has a new Plan, that will work with what has happened. The issue is really differentiating between "God's Plan" and "God's Will". They are not the same thing. This is where the Muslims tend to lose it theologically. They see everything that happens as what God wants to happen. They do not see that we can do things that God does not want, or perhaps would not choose to see happen.

hugs
Geoff

[AlFike]

Well from that perspective, I quite agree but do not see that these children have sacrificed themselves for the greater good. They are innocent victims and the fact that they have been sacrificed can leed to some good. As Geoff says, gun control in the States would be a great blessing and bring greater benefits to many. And as Geoff says, I don't think this was in "God's Plan" but God can work some good from this... lets hope and pray .
I can only imagine the adjustments the angels are constantly making as we stumble around in our lives like Mr. Magoo blithly walking in peril without a clue what danger we are in. I'm sure they sometimes don't know wether to laugh or cry . Here but for the grace of God go I. Much love......Al

[Geoff]

Well from that perspective, I quite agree but do not see that these children have sacrificed themselves for the greater good.

I could only comment on that, if I believed that a pre-incarnation soul possesses intelligence like we understand it, plus foreknowledge. Currently I doubt they do, but it's very hard finding credible sources that have anything useful on that topic. What I have found is that your Indwelling Spirit certainly knows, before taking up residence, how your life will pan out.

On the other hand, we are here on Earth, at this very time as opposed to somewhere else. Did Father decide who goes where? Or did we at some level want to come to the second worst planet in our sub-universe? At least we won the birth lottery, of that we are agreed. We could have done an awful lot worse.

Of course the typical new-age stuff has it that your whole life is planned pre-incarnation by yourself, but I have dismissed that as navel gazing.

hugs
Geoff

[Helge Mercker]

Since we are back on topic, I am glad at the opportunity to express my gratitude to you all esp. Geoff, Jeanne, Al, Terry, Dennis, Doles and so many more for your help and support, your offers of help, your prayers and loving thoughts , all of which inspire us, giving us confidence and courage to engage and participate actively in the labor of love: helping those in desperate need of love and care. My hands are just an extension of yours, my heart is just an extension of yours, through your support, your love, your reaching hand to us here, it is all possible.
May this season of love and peace touch you all as it touches us here, and hold your loved ones really close, and may the Love of Our Father be with us all. Deeply thankful for all the blessings, Helge.

[Helge Mercker]

At this moment, children are singing and are happy as they had a wonderful afternoon of prayer, singing and EATING. Through generous donations, we were able to buy food and could prepare the Saturday afternoon feeding (which will be regularly done every Saturday afternoon) Orphaned, neglegted, abandoned, the sick and ill, every child is welcome.... We have an office now too, and next week our first inaugural Board meeting will be held. Hopefully the registration process as an welfare organisation will be expedited as I hope we will be registered as such before my US/Canada trip in April and May. The tribal leader of the San, Chief Ita Kabases was able through the Regional Council of Land and Resettlement to secure some land for us. As we were looking at the different locations, visualizing the buildings, gardens and dreaming away, Chief Ita started to laugh as a bird was flying above our heads and making a wonderful sound which i was not familiar with. I commented about the beautiful sound and what kind of bird that is, and why she is laughing. She answered that in their tradition, if this bird flies over a woman and sings like this, the woman will be getting a child. We laughed both as she said "...and we will be getting plenty ". It is a joy to do this work, the help and support and guidance from God, the Angels and so many kind, loving and compassionate human hearts, truely fulfilling, to do the labor of love.
In gratitude for your help and support, your prayers and love, Helge.

[jeanne]

YES! You are "with child"! With many children! yes! The song bird rejoices with us all and we are all so privileged and blessed to be part of this community building!! Thank you for your prayers and for your inspiring update! This is wonderful news! Lots of love and God Bless! Jeanne xo