Observations of a Vigil Honoring 19 Dead Firefighters

[Joseph]

Dear friends,

I am asking for your immediate help. I attended a Vigil the other night designed to help the community experiencing grief as the result of the tragic death of 19 firefighters who lost their lives fighting a forest fire near Prescott, AZ. I have written an article that I want to post to my blog, which will be read by many people in the Prescott area. This article is written in response to the preaching that was done during the Vigil. I am asking for your help before I publish it. Please read it and respond with help that may clarify what I am trying to say. I do not want to make it too long. Have I said enough concerning the subject of God's Great Love? Do I need to mention specifically the "Divine Love"? How can I improve this short article?

Thank you, dear friends,

Love,

Joseph


Observations of a Vigil Honoring 19 Dead Firefighters

On Sunday, June 30, 1013, nineteen members of the Hotshot Firefighter Crew from Prescott, Arizona, died in a tragic accident while fighting a raging fire located at Yarnell, a small community some 30 miles southwest of Prescott.

On Tuesday evening, July 2, around 5,000 residents of our community gathered at the football stadium of Prescott High School for a “Candlelight Vigil” to honor the fallen firefighters and their families. It was a deeply emotional gathering, with soul-stirring singing and prayers and preaching by ministers hosting this event.

I direct my observations to the preaching that was delivered to a “captive audience.” In particular my comments are in response to one preacher who attempted to answer the question, “Is God angry with me that He would allow such a tragedy?” This is an age-old problem of the question of human pain and suffering and death, especially death such as happened to the 19 Prescott firefighters. The preacher did his best to answer the question, and in the light of the grief of the listeners, especially the families of the fallen firefighters, his answer was based on his understanding of the Bible, but the answer he gave fell far short of the truth.

Firstly, humans are not the sinful and depraved creatures the preacher presented to the audience. The preacher called our attention to the first parents, and how they invited sin into world, and that humans have been suffering ever since, and that the answer to sin is the coming into the world of Almighty God Himself in the person of Jesus, and that His death on the Cross was the highest Gift that God could give to sinful man, and man’s response is to simply believe on the Lord Jesus Christ, and be saved.

Well, what the preacher said is simply not completely true. Firstly, humans are not the sinful and depraved creatures we are told to believe that we are. We are, in fact, God’s greatest and most beloved creatures! And Jesus is not God and never taught any of his disciples and apostles that he was God. He was a human just as each and every one of is human. Jesus came into this world just as we all do, as the result of the sexual union of a male and female, and Jesus’ parents were literally Mary and Joseph. His mission was not to come as a blood sacrifice on the cross to take away our sin. The blood of Jesus does nothing at all, and belief in the blood sacrifice does not save us. The real truth is that Jesus came to teach and preach the Gospel of God’s Great Love, the only thing in the world that truly “saves” any one. The Good News is Love, not death and sacrifice.

In this short article I wish only to say that Love is the true message of Jesus, a message that gives hope and joy to humans that see this and choose to live by the law of Love. When we allow love to be the guiding principle in our life, we find a help present that lifts us above our so-called depravity and sin. We begin to see with new eyes that God loves us and that He has always loved us, and never stopped loving us and never will stop loving us. We are His beloved children, and His one great desire is that we live like the beloved children that we in fact are. If we allow it, we can feel the presence of God’s Great Love. It is present and waiting, and it is up to us to become aware of the presence of God’s Love, and to allow His Love to be our help and joy.

[Doles]

I probably should've waited for greater minds to pronounce on this, but my comments will simply be small objection over certain wordings. I am of the opinion that those who choose to lead take a huge responsibility for many others. This leads to this line:

The preacher did his best to answer the question, and in the light of the grief of the listeners, especially the families of the fallen firefighters, his answer was based on his understanding of the Bible, but the answer he gave fell far short of the truth.

Since we don't know how many of the families were helped by his take on the matter, perhaps I wouldn't affront it head on. I would, in turns, simply present an alternative that does not suggest discrediting but adding comfort with maybe a different perspective. Because I believe your motive is to bring comfort to the families, you don't want your article to change the conversation into who's right. My last wording may have not conveyed my opinion quite explicitly. But adding to their comfort by presenting an additional avenue that will perhaps attract many who may have not been completely satisfied with the preacher's message.

Now this is for another day,

We are, in fact, God’s greatest and most beloved creatures!

Are we, really? I know it may have been said along this line in the prayer in the Padgett's messages, but is it unequivocally established to be so? I hope to read many responses on a different thread perhaps in the future, or is it already addressed/covered somewhere here?

[AlFike]

Hi Joseph, I just want to convey my condolences to all of the people of Prescott as I think you are all feeling the weight of grief there. You are all in my prayers and I'm praying for all those good men who perished while trying to save the lives and property of others.

I admire your willingness to stick your neck out and confront error as you have in this article. It feels a bit angry in tone though. I know I find it hard when I encounter this terrible onslaught of lies being preached with such authority. I get angry as well. I think in this time of trauma it will be difficult for others to react to this confrontation with acceptance. I believe you are setting yourself up for a lot of problems if you go through with this. I think a loving acknowledgment of the pain that everyone is going through and a prayer that God will comfort and heal all those who have been affected by this tragedy would do much more good. You could add a small and simple statement at the bottom with what you believe to be truth. A simple and loving response at this time will open more doors than a powerful in your face approach. Using a gentle touch is what Jesus would do to assuage the pain that is so raw in so many. Please be careful Joseph, you are walking a fine line here. God will open these doors to truth for you , no need to push them open.

Sorry if this is not what you want to hear but you did ask for feed back and I do feel protective and loving towards you dear brother. I hope you are doing well amongst all this tragedy . God bless for now............Al

[Joseph]

Dear AL and Doles,

Just as I hoped, you two brought a word of wisdom and love to me. I usually do not ask for reviews or comments to something that I have written and want to publish, but for this article I did feel the promptings to do just that, namely, ask for comments before I went public with it.

I will not publish it at all because I agree that the article as it now stands would be taken completely wrong, and I do not desire in any way to be confrontational. There are always better ways of saying things. I believe what happened is that my old "fighting" attitude got hold of me, and I did want to confront untruth head on. Another day, another time. Certainly by prayer first and foremost.

So thank you Doles and Al for being honest and truthful with me. I cringe what may have happened if you had said "Go for it brother!" and I listened and went ahead and published it as is. Whew and sigh.

With love,

Joseph

[Kathryn]

Hi Joseph, what a tragic thing to have happened and I will pray for the families left behind and for the angels to comfort the souls of the firemen who lost their lives. Very, very sad.

If there are many people from Prescott that will be reading your blog at this time perhaps you can not worry too much about what the preacher said and put a focus on God's Divine Love - the latter part of your submission reflects this. I still think it would be nice of you to post something and focus on the healing powers of God's Love and try and provide as much comfort as you can in your post, ie our belief in immortality and Jesus being our beloved teacher and how God's Love is there for us ALWAYS (in life and after death) even though at times we just seem to feel the darkness. Let them know that there are many praying for these souls that have recently passed and how many are praying that the highest of angels be there with them to guide them towards God and his truths.

I believe when there has been so much loss - such great loss, people want to hear comforting words and I believe you can provide this Joseph and plant many seeds while you are at it.

God has given you a gift of writing and this is the perfect time to post something to comfort those that are in need.

Love & BLessings, Kathryn

[AlFike]

I'm glad to hear Joseph that you appreciated the feed back. I don't know how many times I have written or said something out of reaction that I regret but there are many. I really think you would have come to the same conclusion given some time to think about it. I do like that fighting spirit though. . God knows if these truths ever get out into the wider world, we will be defending ourselves to some very indignant evangelical Christians. That's when we'll need to put the gloves on . Happy 4th of July my American cousin. With love........Al

[Geoff]

Dear Joseph,

I am JUST back into the linked world, having flown a great distance the last two days, returning from Zanzibar via Dubai to Sydney.

So I just read this morning of that tragedy, a tragedy which resonates so closely for us Aussies, as we have fatalities all too often from bush fires. But I had not realised it was your home firies.

The advice you have received to hold back is I think wise. Grief is not the base from which to attack entrenched beliefs. On the other hand you did not explain why you felt the answer the preacher gave could be improved. If you marshaled your thoughts again, to simply answer from a Divine Love perspective, you might be able to say something new, without attacking old beliefs? How could you do that?

Well I think its difficult to tell people that in fact there is no great loss in passing from this life to the next. Sure some might be able to spend a few more years building character and living lives filled with love, but that is not denied them in the next. Because the die is not cast. The heavens are places of eternal progression. Indeed some will have been spared the possibility of making serious error in life, which would set back their progress.

The loss that people left behind experience, is that they wont see these loved ones anymore and is of course very understandable. Some families will be in actual hardship, having lost the emotional and financial support of fathers of young families. But for those who have passed on, we know there is no pain at the time of death, and that they are always able to hear the communications directed to them, and they will also be around to watch over their families, and share in the growing up of their children. They will not abandon their family, and they will not be asleep and out of contact.

So what we can share, is that there is no need to worry about those that have passed. They will enjoy the reward of a good life lived, and particularly one can be sure, that those who are willing to do this sort of community service for others, are indeed building heavenly rewards. But for those left behind, what is going to be needed is faith that Father loves them, and has not punished them, even though it may feel like it. And to have enough faith to ask regularly for His help, which He will be offering to all who need it.

love,
Geoff.

[Zara B]

Hi Joseph,

I have read everyone's thoughts here with regard to the blog you had composed - firstly you might want to change the date of the tragedy: 1013 to 2013.

I am wondering at the timing of your experience, having just returned from the retreat with such like-minded people who are immersed in truth and feelings of the Love -- to suddenly return home and to be confronted by the preacher's words?

When good people die doing good things, we find it hard to explain why, in the presence of goodness, such tragedy occurs. Firemen and women all around the world are held with such respect especially in our modern world, as we have seen this last decade or so. Why certain people (who do bad things) go on for years while good people die (when good could be achieved by future works)? Discernment from the outside, where the truth works in our human strengths and weaknesses, can be difficult.

What everyone knows is that good men died trying to do the right thing. The preacher knows this too but he has only his material to draw upon to provide some reason and justification why these good men perished. This is one of those moments when truth and error must give way to a greater value: and that is the empathy of love insofar as there are no winners in this situation. My advice would be to blog detailing the courage of these brave souls and that God is Love and that without trying to right the erroneous truths, to write about your experience of God and God's Love as you know It and live with this Love. In this way you will be writing a testimonial for those brave souls and their loved ones from a position of sincerity and empathy and your voice will sound true for all those who may read your words.

With love,
Zara

[brother dave k.]

Dear Joseph,

i am glad that you wrote the article, and like others, would ask myself if their is another way with words to give expression to the Love and Truth that you hold so dear, as well as the obvious compassion you have for people who have been harmed by the awful doctrines such as "Orignial Sin", "Vicarious Atonement", etc., originally developed and composed by the early bishops of the christian church, who desired to vest power in the church, rather than a Loving God, and an individual soul relationship with Him/Her.
There is also an expressed empathy and compassion for the loss of the berived for their loved ones.

Perhaps some Socratic approach would work. Posing some questions that lead to some sharing of your own experience of passages through similar situations and programmings, with also a sharing of the things that you have applied in your life that have led you to new spiritual awakenings and have given you strength. The sharing of these experiences are the things that i have found that people are most open to, and find in their genuineness, authenticity, and transparency, Love expressed with empath and compassion for all.

i do not down play the desireability and necessity for sometimes being direct. i sometimes see in people a genuine desire to be loving, in the imagined likeness of our much beloved Master, and what they suppose or assume Jesus was like, in comparison to observations of others and making judgements about whether any particular action or expression is motivated by that persons soul love. i, perhaps for one, cannot imagine Jesus being anything but forthright and direct in his confrontations with the Sanhedrin, or for that matter when he "chastized" the money lenders in the temple. It seems to me he had possibly a scope of the suffering of humanity, and a great knowledge of the power of love to heal, not only peoples bodies, but the healing that comes to both the soul and the body by healing the thoughts and beliefs of the mind. So he would be compelled by his soul development to deliver Truth, as forcefully (but lovingly as possible), as he admonished in his writtings through James P. It is a very narrow way.

with much love to all,
brother dave k.

[Joseph]

Dear friends,

I finally rewrote the article; well, in fact, I deleted the whole idea and wrote something completely different. It is an article longer than I usually write for my blog. The title of the new article is: Reflections of the Week that Was. If you would like to read it, it is located here:

http://www.divinelovegreatestthinginthe ... urnal.html

Love and hugs to all,

Joseph