Newbie Question Time!

[Jan]

Code: Select all

At man's creation, a plan was formed by which that image might become a thing of Substance, and there was given to man, the possessor of the image, the potentiality of obtaining the Substance; but man, through his disobedience or failure to comply with or follow out the requirements of the plan provided, forfeited this potentiality, which had been conferred upon him and thereby lost the possibility of having the image transformed into the Substance, which was absolutely necessary in order for him to ever become the possessor of any part of the Father's Divinity. And when men call themselves "divine," they assert that which is not true, but which, since the coming of Jesus to earth, may become true.

This above makes total sense - my question is that God is Omniscience as I believe all powerful, all knowing. Would not he have know that man would have been disobedient to his laws? My confusion comes in when it is stated that he changed his mind and decided to once again give man the gift of eternal life, but yet we are told that God is never changing and that the universe is run on laws that even God himself couldn't change. Why did he take it away from all mankind when it was Amon and Aman that made their decision to be disobedient?

Much Love!
Jan

[Zack]

Hi Jan!

Newbie... hehe, maybe more like advanced class, to me at least.

Would not he [God] have know that man would have been disobedient to his laws?

I have asked this question myself a while ago. I couldn't answer it myself, but received an answer from a wise person. The answer I received was that the problem was in the physical dimension of man's being. Since the physical is created out of matter which is inferior to the spiritual, this coarseness allowed for a glitch in what otherwise would have been a perfect plan for man. Free will I believe was and is in this respect meant to maximize an enjoyable experience - if we were robots, enjoyment would be lacking something even if it was programmed in us - but when free will combined with the physical being which is coarse, the inconceivable happened, and man "failed to choose the right thing". And so it was a failure because of the limitations of the physical. This was the answer I received.

My confusion comes in when it is stated that he [God] changed his mind and decided to once again give man the gift

I think it is stated in one of the messages, someone else may remember where, that He never changed His mind but man did - there was no use to keep a gift dangling in front of the child who would not take it. So another plan was adopted, a longer way, for sure, but one which would surely bring in the inevitable "happy end", harmony and happiness to man's being once again, and still respect mans' free will and all the laws of his being.

Why did he take it away from all mankind when it was Amon and Aman that made their decision to be disobedient?

Well, I would suppose that had there been a group or a person who would've wanted it, the gift would have been given to them. But the original error swamped it for the children too.

This is how I conceive it now, a limited view, but in the future I am sure I will understand more. I hope that others will chip in with their views too

I am certain that the Father is doing an optimal job at all times. And I believe we will see a great positive change coming very soon to the whole world.

Love,
Zack

[Zara B]

Hi Jan and Zack,

Jan you have posted a wonderful excerpt and asked a wonderful question. It is one of those questions thats rounded, for not one answer will satisfy such a leading question.

Zack has put forward some good points, which help to elaborate on the question you have asked.

If we assume that God knows everything that there is to know about everything and everyone, with respect to experience and variations of time, we could safely say that God knew that the Divine Love and the Spirit would form part of humankind's beginning and that this Love and Spirit would be de-activated because of the actions of two individuals and that the Love and the Spirit would be activated again because a certain individual would walk as a man and declare this gift so.

The reason why the construct of natural love and the Divine Love is so important for us to learn, is so that we can understand that whether the Divine Love and the Spirit forms part of the potential for Immortality in humans and spirits or not, the natural love in humans and spirits survives and can survive without the inclusion of the Divine Love.

This dovetails into the explanation of why God's Spirit Laws are immutable. There are Spirit Laws that come into effect and relate solely with the natural love in a soul as one progresses in a souls' life, as there are other distinct Spirit Laws that relate directly with aspects of the Divine Love within other individual souls as we progress into greater harmony and presence of the Father.

There is much more and I am sure others will contribute to your question.
Much love,
Zara

[Jan]

Thanks so much Zack and Zara for your insights.

I say new because I have only been introduced to the Padgett Messages for under 6 months so i have a lot more reading and learning ahead. I can see now that God had to take me to a point of unlearning so that I could absorb and except the truths now being brought to me.

I read the messages daily then pray and mediate on what I have read usually in the morning and in the evening as well as read the posts on this website. It has also been interesting going back and reading previous threads and posts. I almost didn't post my questions as I don't want to cause anyone to doubt but then I thought maybe others had the same question and they might be hesitant as well.
Much Love!
Jan

[AlFike]

Thank you Jan for posting these questions and responding to the answers. You may feel like a babe in the woods but really we are all still learning and relearning as we struggle to be closer to God. So your questions are always welcome and important.

My thoughts about why God gave and recinded the Divine Love offer and then gave it again cause me to speculate that like most aspects of the universe, they come in waves. Ebb and flows, rythms and change. Maybe His Love is the same and the amplitude is in millenia not minutes. Does God know the final outcome of everything He creates ? My guess is no. As life progresses, it evolves and interacts in the crucible and new things and creations result from this interaction. This is not kaos but it is in harmony with the laws of change. There are limits to be sure but also a lot of room for evolution or de-evolution as the case may be.

The first parents were created perfect and pure. They were given their choice as to what form of love they were to act upon and I think God was testing His new creations in this regard. He imbued humanity with a great deal of potential but also put in some fail safes in order that things would not get out of control ie: the first parents receiving the Love but also thinking they were gods. The withdrawl of the Love had many consequences for us and we have been slowly crawling out of the pit that we dug for ourselves through our collective bad choices. As Zack implies, a new beginning seems to be upon us and the choice of receiving the Love which by the actions of our dear brother Jesus was given, is now very apparent. God's Love is flowing abundantly and we are all riding this wave to redemption and atonement. I would suggest that rather than speculate with your material mind upon the nature of God (as I have just done ) pray that His Love blesses you with such abundance that you and He will know each other in a full and fullfiling way. The real answers can only come through soul perceptions. What we are doing here is a shadow of the truth where it's substance can only be known through soul progression. We are all children in this regard. Some a little further on than others but children none the less.

Again,thank you Jan for your beautiful and humble questioning. We all need to ask these big questions and comfort our suspicious minds with the partial answers that we are able to comprehend in this way. Soon will come the day when such burning curiosity will be replaced with inner knowing and peace. It's all a process and I am glad to see you are fully engaged in it dear sister. Much love and encouragement to you. Your brother.......Al

[Jesper S]

Hi Jan,

This is a very interesting question!

I don't know if this is something that really is about Gods laws. Because I do believe as I have read that Gods laws never changes and is always the same.

I think it is rather about God himself. God as the Great Soul Being, despite of his laws, I believe can do what he wishes. If he wishes to give a gift he can, if he wishes to remove it again he can and so on. I don't think this works within his laws, but is rather something about His will.

Love,

Jesper

[Doles]

Al wrote,

Does God know the final outcome of everything He creates ? My guess is no.

Hmm, Lots to think about here. Since I think there may be more than one of what we call God..i.e creator, I'll probably not disagree much here. But I do believe if there's a source of everything that he/she/it is beyond everything. That leaves me to think they'd have to know everything since knowledge would be part of their attributes. As for the final outcome, I would imagine it that they'd probably know it but with countless paths leading back to it...and thus there lies free will. Just to force myself to a meaningless contribution to an otherwise wonderful conversation.

[Zara B]

Hi Jan,

The question you posed that God changed His mind, is a good question.

Having studied how the Divine Love works, I believe that the Divine Love formed part of the potential for Immortality and that this Love and Substance has always been present ever since the first forming of man. I don't think that God retracts all the Divine Love back into His Soul - if the Love is withdrawn. My perception is that the Divine Love remains present to humans and in all spirit Spheres, as that potential and Substance. It requires the Spirit (Holy Spirit) to act and convey this Substance into a soul that has asked to receive this gift, the Divine Love. What we see here is that the Divine Love cannot act independent of the Spirit! This teaches us that the Divine Love is subject to a Law that requires the operation of The Spirit and a mortal soul asking to engage with this Substance and potential and with God.

God, being of Supreme Law and a greater Law can deactivate the very Spirit Law that acts and is active upon which The Spirit must follow.

The First Parents or the individuals they personify did receive the Divine Love by the workings of The Spirit. They had received the potential and Substance and continued to do so up until a moment when they themselves assumed in their minds, equal standing with God. Thus, they created an error, which caused separation from the Spirit Law that acts with The Spirit that conveys The Divine Love. This had nothing to do with God, although God knew that such an event may transpire and this is why every soul is not made with the Divine Love in it as part of its created image.

The point here is to understand that God didn't change His mind and the Spirit Laws worked perfectly. It was independent personalities that separated themselves from the Immutable workings of a Spirit Law and plan for Immortality. The First Parents by their action caused a violation, which, resutled in the first disharmonious action created and demonstrated how one can act in contradistinction with the Spirit Laws of Love and Harmony.

The reason why this separation was so significant is that in the life of the First Parents, The Spirit was deactivated which meant that although the Divine Love was present It remained inert unable to act until the error had been amended and this happened with the life of Jesus.

The temptation that has been written about Jesus was the fact that he had received the Divine Love for the Father had reactivated the Spirit Law so that Jesus could receive The Spirit and Divine Love. What Jesus didn't do as a temptation, was commit the same error as the First Parents. He by choice alone continued to serve the Spirit of the Father and never assumed on earth or now the spirit Spheres, equal standing with God. And so, we can continue to receive The Spirit that coveys the always-present Substance of the Father into our souls. If Jesus as a man had taken the temptation and assumed a self-entitlement such as to be equal with God, then he - like the First Parents - would be self-serving in action and this is where the great drama happens that we see each day. If Jesus had acted like the First Parents, then I am certain that in this separation The Spirit would have been deactivated and none of us would be writing and sharing our experiences about the Divine Love today - (smile)!

When you see the vision of this, it is perfect.

With love,
Zara

[Zara B]

Hi All,

From our human experience of time we can look into the future knowing that we cannot predict it - so from our experience, the future in our own life and humanity as a whole, is perceived from an unknown. Then there is the past and historians can build an image of an event to its conclusion and we can see all the information to make that image known. We can try to do the same with our own individual experiences.

The First Source involves time from a unique perspective. If we believe that the Absolute forms part of God's Soulful nature, then all time known! And this is explained by the fact that God's perception of humanity in the present -- is the past/present/future happening as a singular outcome in the present.

Everything to do with humanity past, present and future is happening as an outcome from the Absolute present. And so yes, everything is known about humanity and outcomes. Every farthing of experience is known; every hair on a head accounted for even if one is bald (smile). If humanity is a triangle and one point is past another point is present, and the third point is future, then God’s point is at the centre but this centre includes both sides of the triangle and all internal and external space and time surrounding and including the triangle.

The mystery surrounding all mystery to do with the First Source is that the Soul God might be the only one that knows how it/He came into being, and to live in this knowledge would include all time: finite and eternal, that exists as creation.

We like to think that everything is unknown and some find comfort in the drama that from our human experience anything is possible and as such we are free to make it all up as we go along. In our social lives we do … and we all know that much of what we experience is happening for the first time and it is amazing! If we all knew the future, then how different life would be!

Living with Divine Love has taught me faith, for whilst I have no idea about the future, at least I know that someone does! And, this someone - more than likely - silently guided me through my life's experiences to eventually arrive at finding the message and reading about the Divine Love when in my distant past, this someone knew that I would be opening my heart and receiving the Divine Love one day in the future and every day since, those 23 years ago.

With love,
Zara

[Jan]

Thanks Zara,
I am also glad you pointed out the mysteries of all mystery as other than the perceptions of this world everything is on faith. And it really surprised me that when we cross over the mystery will still be as real.

If Jesus had acted like the First Parents, then I am certain that in this separation The Spirit would have been deactivated and none of us would be writing and sharing our experiences about the Divine Love today - (smile)!

The above helps me to appreciate Jesus more.
Much love!
Jan