Forcibly presenting God's truths

[DennisT]

What a wonderful thread, Joseph, and thank you for starting and keeping it going!

IMHO, I feel the words "forcible" and "Divine Love" are antithetical, and I cannot imagine even using them in the same paragraph. What has drawn me and kept me on this path, although but a brief time, is the beautiful simplicity of the plan of salvation. Jesus said in one message:
"

My truths are plain and my teachings can be understood by the simple.

Living the love is sharing the love.

For me, living in the Love is what it is all about. People that know me, and to some extent even people I now meet, can see or feel something. It's as if the Love was palpable, and people are drawn to it. Law of Attraction may I dare say? If they ask, I share gladly. I am one of those who enjoys writing, and I too have a website and other projects in the works. The angels are guiding us, and each of us has his or her own part.

I loved reading everyone's responses, and Jeanne the recent message from Jesus is so wonderful. It is so comforting and loving to read and absorb such love and guidance from the Master and other Celestials.

Now with that said, someone get me a two-by-four or a shovel, and let's cram some of this Divine Love into your brains (see, it just doesn't go together, lol)

Love to all,
Dennis

[Zara B]

Hi all,

I see by way of example - insofar as we can all convey our experience and respect each other's experience - demonstrates how we are all living in the Love and this we have in common with Jesus and the Celestial spirits even though we have such diverse life experiences to draw from and to share. As many of us have experienced in other public forums and personal interactions, the lack of respect and common human decency and good manners is sadly lacking. Opinion and belief provide the perfect example of how personality exercises its determination -- or tries to -- over the truth.

I have spent the better part of 24 years working out how to introduce the Divine Love in the public. After so many experiences with different types of people, the one thing in common that held people's interest was the whole idea about spirits and spirit communication. I realised that most people were not interested in reading the PM's because of the words: Jesus, New-birth, and the reference to God as the Father.

When I introduced God as the Father, most shut down or turned away immediately - for history has placed this identity (and these identities) in only a religious context. When I talk to the spiritualist, I would introduce themes such as spirits & Spirit Laws, but as soon as the word 'Truth' was mentioned, most would turn away.

The ongoing problem that confronts us each day is how do we socialise with a little of what we know?

I draw from experience that the path of least resistance is the word "Awareness". It is not that we are to forcibly place any truth rather in this modern day as we are aware of the Love the real context is how do we create an awareness of the Love and from what I have heard here - each is finding our way of living this and contributing in the small way that we can.

I feel that this little statement about 'force' and why Joseph may have written it in a post here is because it actually infers a responsibility. All of us know how true and good this Love is and what It means to us and what It is teaching us. And so, as we learn we are becoming aware of this greater responsibility that we are living, for we know that there are others like Jesus who are living with this Love as well and helping to create awareness in the Spheres with others who are asking and longing to know what the truth is.

With the word responsibility comes commitment, self-respect and self-love. The Divine Love of God is teaching us and growing us up and so we are aware of what we are dealing with and who we are becoming as we figure out how to introduce another who may then embark upon the same responsibility. I don't think the Celestial spirits act irresponsibly. I believe they take great care in presenting the Gift of Divine Love, and they are aware that everyone will be given the choice before the Love is withdrawn. This is important because it takes out any anxiety about the need to act or be irresponsible.

It may sound funny or little strange to use words like responsibility when involving something as free as the Divine Love is … but if we look a little deeper then perhaps the reference of all the Truths causes us to realise that if we really would like to learn more, then, we are going to have to be in the condition to do so and this may even mean having the responsibility to actually tell another about the Love.

Love,
Zara

[Geoff]

I have spent the better part of 24 years working out how to introduce the Divine Love in the public. After so many experiences with different types of people, the one thing in common that held people's interest was the whole idea about spirits and spirit communication. I realised that most people were not interested in reading the PM's because of the words: Jesus, New-birth, and the reference to God as the Father.

Dear Zara,

Yes I agree with that. Society has been badly burnt by its exposure to orthodox Christianity. But the problem is, that while its possible to get people interested by explaining all the spiritual knowledge that we have, its not possible to explain WHY they need to pray for the love. And my experiment with just getting them to TRY the love has also not yet worked. Well, that is my feeling. Our best audience really is the very audience that wont listen.

hugs
Geoff

[Joseph]

Dear friends,

Thank you all for great posts. I sure do learn a lot reading each one. Each one contributes something important; like pieces in a huge puzzle, each single part adds to the whole picture.

I want to share a little about how I read the Padgett messages. When I read the Padgett messages I am often surprised by something new. This has to be the way it is because I am able to process only what I am ready for. As I re-read things I read 6 years ago, I see things differently. I am always progressing; I am constantly being changed by love. Thus, while reading the messages, in the present moment I see that I will respond to what I am reading in several ways:

1) I have the free will to completely reject what I am reading -- this can be conscious choice, or rejecting what I see just simply because something doesn't feel "right." Old beliefs get in the way and help in this process of rejection.
2) I may see something in a message that in the present doesn't seem "right," but I am willing to accept what I see on faith and trust, hoping that some time in the future I will understand more fully.
3) I can merely accept everything "blindly" and close my mind (and heart) to any and all objections.

I'm sure that there are other ways to read the Padgett messages than the three I listed. I am a person who falls predominately into # 2 in the above list. I think the text that I saw that started this thread is a good case in point. Just because I may see a huge question mark in the use of the word "forcibly" does not mean that I gloss over it and pretend it is not in the text, or that I want to scratch it from the text. When I saw this word I paused and really wanted to know why it was there. Was it merely a mistake by the medium when he recorded the message? Or did Jesus really intend to use the word "forcibly" when he selected James as the medium? That is why prayer and faith is so crucially important for those of us who willingly and enthusiastically embrace the message of God's Great Love. I trust that answers do come to us when we pray.

Has this subject been discussed enough? Are we done talking? I think not, and I hope not. There are too many good things being written to think we have exhausted the subject.

Last night when I was meditating about this subject a few verses from the Bible came to me. Maybe you are familiar with this and maybe you are not. I am referring to the example Jesus used when he was talking about the subject of the love of God permeating the soul. He asked, "Do you place a bushel over a candle? You are the light of the world; do not hide your light." Well, this is not an exact quote!! But you get the idea. Why light a candle and then place a bushel over it? Doesn't make sense at all. A lighted candle has the purpose of lighting a room, or being a guide to someone walking in the dark -- like a beacon from a lighthouse to sailors on the sea. Don't hide the light within you; love, the Divine Love is the light!

With love to all,
Joseph

[AlFike]

Yes this discussion is a big one Joseph and could go on for God knows how long. Exspressing the Love that we carry in to the world is a complex matter and yet not. As we have already talked about, we are responsible for our own spiritual condition and that takes time and commitment if not a lot of discipline. We need to work at it and while we overcome internal barriers and are purified in the Love, we climb that mountain a little more and get to see a little more of the spiritual landscape. So the initial effort is to heal, educate and love ourselves. This changes our spiritual condition and affects our perspective and thinking as we come ever closer to the Creator. Once we have progressed a little and secured our footing then we will naturally want to share our experiences and our new found Love. How this is done is dependant on our personalities and our gifts. Some are great communicaters and others are great doers and some are both. I'm a doer, I love to help others, give in the flow of my abilities, cooking, gardening ,writing,visualizing and listening. As a medium, I feel gratified that I have an active role to play in our prayer circles. For my self worth, I need to feel that something is happening and I am a part of it. These things enable me to exspress the Love within because that Love permiates and colours these activities and adds that special touch that brings some measure of light into the world. My wife Jeanne is a communicater, a teacher and an organizer. Together we cover a lot of bases and she and I were just commenting yesterday that God knew what he was doing by bringing us together. He does not want us to be something that we are not, merely to express all those lovely qualities that make each of us unique and to express them fully in the world and to not hide our light. This to me is being a channel of God's Love and truth in the world. This form of communication brings the message forward where as preaching our understanding of truth may cause some form of provocation in another but demonstrates very little.

We are asked to be the Love. We are also asked to follow our guidance. Those things are our responsibility . If we are guided to say or do something then if we have truely commited to this Path then we must accept the directive. Of course we must seek only the highest guidance and again our responsability is to be in proper spiritual condition in order to do so.Spreading 'the word' is an approach that is common in religion and as such we are just another of the many messages that are out there . Our message gets lost in the shuffle because we appear to be Christian but in the eyes of many we also mix in blasphemy. Not an attractive combination to the conservative seeker. As Zara says, mention a few key words and most turn away. I think we rest on the horns of this dilema because we feel that we must do something yet in our doing on a daily basis I believe we are doing what we are meant to do. For the big plan and the big picture, we must leave this to God and have faith that all will be well. That is true humility and a way to demonstrate the simple power of God's great Love.

I'm sure this does not sit well with some but after all these years and going through all or most of the phases of growth and internal processing that many of you are encountering, I have come to the conclusion that we need not sweat it regarding bringing forward the truth to mankind. Just live the truth as fully as you can in your own worlds and let God worry about the big picture. I'm sure we will all play some sort of role in this now and in the future. God bless for now....Al

[brother dave k.]

Joseph,
Thank you again for so well stating your experiences and perceptions of your journey with the Messages. When i first was guided to the Messages, i, like many people had the experience that "these are exactly what i have been seeking for so long", and a deep inner sense of the Truth of them, though the language and precepts where not like anything that i had ever seen before. i just could not put them down.
Shortly after, i met George Stokes, who always guided us to pray for the inflowing of the Divine Love prior to reading, or especially studying, the Divine Truths, or even the Spiritual Truths, contained therein. That the prayer for the Divine Love, when done sincerly and in belief and Faith, created the conditions in the human soul whereupon the souls perceptions would be more active than the learned thoughts and beliefs of the mind. i heard the admonishion of my one of my earth guides and mentors, and put into practice and application the principles expressed. They have always worked for me. Thus, as said; "The proof is in the pudding."
I so much enjoyed the expressions of your experience of continually questioning the Truth of what it was that you were reading, or that of your understandings of the Truth. i also, so very many times in my progression have read something and then come back to it at a later time and wondered how i had mis-read, or mis-interpreted what was actually written. This has occured with the Messages from Jesus and the Celestials as well as my other favorite text on Spiritual Progression, the book "Alcoholics Anonymous", which was written by Bill Wilson (and Dr. Bob Smith), AFTER PRAYER.

It has indeed been my experience that the souls understanding comes when we are ready, and/or in a condition of mind and soul that allows for a clarity of souls perceptions of the Truth. Many times the Angels have said to me during my contemplations and meditations on the Truth (which is advised stronly in the Messages), "you are not ready to get the full meaning yet, be patient, it will come as you continue to pray and desire only the Truth." Or other such messages. This was another guidance from the Angels through George Stokes that has proved through experience to be invaluable. "Pray for a burning desire to know the Truth (and only the Truth). That desire, in itself, produces conditions within the individual that create an opening to greater and clearer perceptions of the Truth. I have been caught (within myself, and with the Angels help) in the mental assumptions of knowledge of something that indeed was not True, but merely speculation and conjecture of the mind. The messages are full and rife with instructions about the relationship between the thoughts and beliefs (attitudes) of the mind, and the soul and its perceptions of Love and Truth.

with my Love and in service to the angels and my brothers and sisters, brother dave k.

[brother dave k.]

Al,

Thank you for the wonderful expressions of your considerable experience in Spiritual Progression in the Divine Love. It also has been my experience that the path requires a great commitment to the Truth, and the disipline(s) necessary to obtain some of it in a meaningful way. i appreciate the tempered way in which they have been expressed and the obvious inspirations of the Angels while doing so.

[Jesper S]

I think Jesus says somewhere in the messages to share these truths whenever the opportunity arises. So to me this means not to go out and put them in the face of others, which would then be a forcibly presentation, which I think would be an intrusion into another persons energy, state and belief system. But for example to realize that people might be spiritully interested as we meet them would then be an opportunity to share the truths.

Love, Jesper

[Joseph]

I wonder what the response would have been to this thread if I had used a different title?

This morning I was curious about the word "forcibly" and went to an online dictionary to see what I would find. This is what I discovered. A list of words was provided for possible alternative usage. Here is the list:

forcible

authoritative, cogent, commanding, compelling, convincing, dominant, emphatic, energetic, full of power, full of strength, having a strong effect, having great strength, impelling, impressive, intense, invincible, irresistible, powerful, producing a powerful effect, resistless, strong

After seeing this list I rewrote the title "Forcibly presenting God's truths" to read:

Authoritatively presenting God's truths

Compellingly presenting God's truths

Convincingly presenting God's truths

Emphatically presenting God's truths

Energetically presenting God's truths

Impressively presenting God's truths

Intensely presenting God's truths

Irresistibly presenting God's truths

Powerfully presenting God's truths

Strongly presenting God's truths

After the above exercise I turned again to the quote from the message of Jesus where he is purported to have written:

"The importance of these truths cannot be too forcibly placed before men for their consideration;"

I selected one of the words from the above list of possible alternatives and rewrote Jesus' message to read like this:

"The importance of these truths cannot be too compellingly placed before men for their consideration;"

Has the meaning changed? Has the emphasis been watered down? Has the thrust of the message changed? Is the message now somewhat easier to accept?

Food for thought, lovingly offered,

Joseph

[Geoff]

Dear Joseph,

Yes that is very instructive, particularly when we realise that mediumship and indeed our own language cannot "contain" the truth to any great degree.

hugs
Geoff