What to tell a beginner?

[Eva]

Thanks Al and Beth for your comments.

I agree with Beth:

I currently feel strongly that in the conscious effort to remove some of these conditions that aren't in harmony, I will actually be helping my efforts on the Divine Love path as well.

The reason I asked Al to clarify what he meant by "natural love path beliefs" is because I wasn't sure if he meant what Beth mentioned above as far as other ways to improve ourselves than just by praying for the Divine Love. While that is certainly the starting point and in that prayer, we are seeking God's help before all else, we also have our part to play and that Padgett message that I quoted above supports that. The Divine Love parallels the natural love path in any and all practices of getting in harmony with God's laws of morality and of our creation. Wherever the practices come from (such as the Loving Kindness Meditation stemming from Buddhism), as long as they work toward achieving this harmony and work alongside soul transformation by the Divine Love, they can only be good.

Back to Beth's quote above:

If his thoughts and deeds are evil, he will attract those spirits or mortals who have similar thoughts and deeds, and who will not help him to higher things, but who will retard his progress towards his first estate; and if his thoughts and deeds are good, then his associates will only be those of like qualities, who can and will help him in his progress.

Every effort to create good thoughts strengthens the desires and will in that direction, and assists the coming of other good thoughts, for with these efforts comes the help of these unseen influences, and the repulsion of the influences of the retarding forces.

Time after time, in other messages as well, Padgett was encouraged to think spiritual thoughts which would help him get into spiritual condition that in turn would enable the angels communicate high-quality messages. This implies a conscious mind action as well as mindfulness -- being aware of his state of mind and consciously changing it if need be from negative and/or worldly thoughts to spiritual thoughts.

The above quote also mentions deeds. Deeds stem from thoughts and have to be chosen -- we decide, consciously or unconsciously, to act on both a good thought or not so good one. For example, we can feel annoyed or angry and choose to express the annoyance in word or deed, or we decide not to express it and instead choose kindness. The more we choose the way of love and kindness, the more we'll also attract good spirits and they in turn will help us to walk in Love.

So again quoting Beth with a quote from Bill's book:

In addition to specific prayer, "engage in spiritual disciplines that support the development of our souls and the elevation of our thoughts and feelings in the direction of truth, love, beauty and goodness. When we do these things we attract positive spiritual influences to support us in the realization of our aspirations. Whenever we choose to seek God’s Love, we attract the very presence of God, bright spirits and angels of Divine Love who desire to support us in our efforts and expressions." Bill's book (Divine Love Essentials, pgs 22 & 23), Law of Attraction

So thank you, Beth, I believe your conclusion is right on.

[Geoff]

But I cannot see why, in addition to prayer, it's not helpful looking to other supports -- whether it's therapy, doing a Loving Kindness meditation, or some somatic practice that helps you learn to be in your body with your emotions (yoga, tai chi, etc).

It's a big world, and we're all individuals!

Dear Beth,

I believe you are 100% right. I do not believe there are dangers in practising "natural path" activities. Heck Al does gardening. That's not a Divine Love path. He finds it very powerful and so others would describe walking in nature as drawing them closer to God. And I have often said I actually believe every single one of our senses can be used to draw closer to God.

On another point. What I see - and I hope I am very wrong - is a tendency to require newcomers to conform to certain activities that are "Divine Love" and are not "Natural Path." This is NOT what we have been asked to do. We have been asked to step up and tell people of the existence of Divine Love and how to receive it. Then that is our job done.

Imagine if you had the opportunity to address 100 Catholic Bishops at the Vatican. Yes they might listen carefully to what I just described, but start telling them to drop all their dogma, sacraments, going to mass, confession etc, and you have just lost a God-given opportunity for real change. What we do know is if we teach and allow people to receive the love, eventually they will themselves drop those things that no longer serve. If we think that is our job, then we are running a cult, not sharing the Good News. And we will not change this world. We will be yet another closed religious group. And this is certainly my idea of how I might achieve some change in the world.

hugs
Geoff

[AlFike]

All good points and I'm sort of feeling accused of being closed minded and dictatorial. Jeanne and I are running a class on Divine Love mediumship and my assertion that those who are gifted in this way and want to become a channel for Celestial spirits need to be very mindful of their thoughts and beliefs because of what they attract. That doesn't mean that you cannot live a full life with many pursuits but it is a great benefit to limit natural love practices to those that are simple and close to a higher natural love path. That said, anything can enhance natural love and be of benefit. but if you are reading, practicing, chanting and performing daily rituals that are prescribed natural love ideas, one is running the risk of getting those spirits involved with your channeling of Celestials. For some this might be ok, but considering how rare and demanding channeling Celestials is, I would not advise it. But of course we all have free will and inevitably do as we wish. As for natural love therapeutic practices, yoga, acupuncture, gestalt, reading other spiritual texts and walking in the park, I've tried it all. My experience in emotional work with Gestalt/acupuncture techniques was very intense. For a time I was more in the camp of the likes of AJ Miller in my ideas while still pursuing the Love. How that time of extreme focus on my psychological health would have affected my mediumship is self evident as my mind and probably parts of my soul were almost obsessed with these practices. I derived a great deal of benefit from this emotional work which was during my late twenties into my mid thirties and in retrospect I can see why the Angels waited for me to 'get over' my angst before approaching me to be a channel for them. As I have said, everyone follows their own unique path to God. What we share is an experience in receiving His Love. What we do with it and how focused we are on this path is up to us as no one can prescribe otherwise to their brothers and sisters. As for the mediumship class, that is a journey that requires more dedication and focus on what influence is around you. A much different ballgame in my opinion.

[Geoff]

Jeanne and I are running a class on Divine Love mediumship and my assertion that those who are gifted in this way and want to become a channel for Celestial spirits need to be very mindful of their thoughts and beliefs because of what they attract.

Yes that is a rather different issue, but I still do not accept we need to be fearful of third, fourth and sixth sphere spirits. In fact fear exhibited causes more attraction not less. And to the extent that we are not perfect beings we will draw very low level spirits - dare I say even dark - to us if we have unattended vices. As we often do.

But I could see that it is pretty easy to drop into one mode - that of teaching folks to be DL mediums - and forget the audience is different on another day?

However I do wonder if some of those keen to attend your mediumship programs have in fact accepted and practised DL for at least a reasonable period of time? Whatever that might mean.

hugs
Geoff

[BethM]

All good points and I'm sort of feeling accused of being closed minded and dictatorial. Jeanne and I are running a class on Divine Love mediumship and my assertion that those who are gifted in this way and want to become a channel for Celestial spirits need to be very mindful of their thoughts and beliefs because of what they attract.

I certainly am not accusing you of being closed minded or dictatorial, but it definitely goes to show the challenges of the mind in general and specifically when it comes to communication. I started this topic about what to tell beginners ... and I guess I really meant, what to tell people who pray for Divine Love and don't feel it. People who want to become channels for Celestial spirits are way ahead of the crowd I'm talking about!

Jesus told Padgett that if his "thoughts and deeds are good, then his associates will only be those of like qualities, who can and will help him in his progress. Every effort to create good thoughts strengthens the desires and will in that direction, and assists the coming of other good thoughts." So my argument is that those natural love activities that help "create good thoughts" are actually a great complement to the praying for the inflowing of Divine Love into the soul.

[Geoff]

Jesus told Padgett that if his "thoughts and deeds are good, then his associates will only be those of like qualities, who can and will help him in his progress. Every effort to create good thoughts strengthens the desires and will in that direction, and assists the coming of other good thoughts." So my argument is that those natural love activities that help "create good thoughts" are actually a great complement to the praying for the inflowing of Divine Love into the soul.

Dear Beth,

Yes I am thinking these mediumship programs are a bit different, and I am not sure how they can fit into a "beginners" path. I know that both churches required "members" to have been absorbing Padgett for at least a year. Something like that is probably appropriate here as a minimum? So not beginners. Those that have chosen to walk a DL path can indeed be shared all manner of things without a concern they will walk away and never take on board that all you have to do is reach our to God.

hugs
Geoff

[AlFike]

Sorry to cast any aspersions your way Beth. Certainly not intended ........Al

[BethM]

I think I'm getting the feeling that I need to start working on this on my own, directly with God (even if I don't have conscious awareness of God or my guides). Trying to resolve this with external teachings or teachers, while often valuable, may (does?) seem to partly reinforce the problem, which is being overly identified with the mind.

Speaking of which, Al very nicely summed up the issue in his remarks from the last session of the mediumship class last Friday, saying:

It [communication on the soul level] is happening. But our biggest barrier to recognizing it is often our minds, our material minds. Which for many of us, are very busy doing many things, engaged in many ways with the material world. And our challenge is to get beyond that mindset to something deeper, a soulset if you will.

My own feeling at present is that when this is an issue -- and you're not sufficiently progressed on the Divine Love path -- that turning to natural love activities or healing practices may be helpful. People and cultures that have been doing natural love for thousands of years know a LOT about the mind and how it presents these challenges to us!

I look at this a little like getting healthy. If you're a couch potato who wants to improve their health, a typical approach will be to do cardio, weight training, and flexibility work to cover most of the bases. But down the road, when you desire to run the Boston Marathon or become a world-class body builder, your efforts will need to adjust ... the approach that works for the couch potato is not the right one.

And Al and others can correct me if I'm wrong, but as far as I am aware, there is only ONE activity that is exclusively a Divine Love activity, and that praying to God, asking for the inflowing of Divine Love into one's soul. So everything else is either a natural love activity (one that draws you closer to God without transforming your soul the way praying for Divine Love does) or a material activity (which generally does not draw you closer to God and in fact may do the opposite).

So it seems to me that viewing natural love activities is as a complement to Divine Love prayer is good for many reasons (including the ones mentioned by Eva and Geoff in previous posts on this topic). But it's also important to be mindful to avoid what Al is concerned about: "when the natural love approaches become more important and are emphasized to such an extent that prayer and receiving the Divine Love is way back in the queue."

BTW, not sure where Simon got this quote from Al (emphasis mine):

This path is not easy on the beginner. It offers little structure, edicts, dogmas or even human support. Its not well known, nor is it well practiced. In this regard we are all beginners. It beckons us to places we have not been before, to the realms of angels and the soul of God. Our earthly concerns are irrelevant on this journey. As we let go of old beliefs, we often feel cast adrift within our minds while our souls soar in the grace of God's Love. The challenge is great but the rewards are greater still. I applaud anyone with the stamina to shift their consciousness towards God and Divine Love. It is such an incremental journey that one cannot see its daily progress, but like a flower opening, in time it becomes very evident. Persistence, stamina and sustaining a strong desire to receive the gift of God's Love in our souls will get you through the barriers and doubts. As time goes on, faith builds and so does your confidence in this truth. Its not for the faint of heart but for those whose soul wants to roar with truth and smile in love.

Word!

[Eva]

Hello Beth,

Just a couple of thoughts on what you shared:
Back five years ago when I was about a year into the Divine Love path and somewhat struggling with the concept of spiritual guides and teachers, I wrote this based on the Bible, my own reflection and personal experience: http://universal-spirituality.net/spiri ... rs-guides/. Perhaps it will help you become more aware how you too have been guided and helped in your life and on your spiritual journey.

I would beg to differ that the only Divine Love path activity is praying for the Love. I believe that as we pray for God's Love and soul transformation, our whole life -- everything we do -- begins to follow the Divine Love path. One of the quotes from Padgett I posted in an earlier post on this thread says that the natural love path and the Divine Love path parallel as far as actions, morality, ethics, etc., but the former is self-powered through our will and the latter is powered by God's nature within us. Once we pray for the Love and are being transformed, we are changed at the soul level -- becoming a new creation, a different person with changed beliefs, desires, motivations. Then the rest of our life pursuits and choices -- spiritual practice, job, recreation, relationships, and on and on -- will be motivated from our transformed soul. This doesn't happen automatically -- we still need to make choices, but it becomes easier to respond kindly to someone who was not kind, for example, or even loving our enemies. We will also experience more peace, joy and faith.

I agree that while getting input and counsel from others is valuable, we do ultimately have to come to our own conclusions what is the truth for us in any particular matter. Everyone's relationship with God is unique and personal and we'll each have different perceptions and experiences. So keep praying for personal guidance and trust your insights -- even if they differ from what others are saying. As someone recently mentioned, you can't do it wrong if you are sincerely and wholeheartedly seeking God's Love -- except, as Geoff pointed out, when you are only praying and not following Jesus' example and command to "love as he loved."

Love,
Eva

[BethM]

I would beg to differ that the only Divine Love path activity is praying for the Love. I believe that as we pray for God's Love and soul transformation, our whole life -- everything we do -- begins to follow the Divine Love path.

Sure, if you want to say that once we begin to be transformed, that all activities that we do on our Divine Love journeys are part of the Divine Love path because the natural love path "is self-powered through our will and the [Divine Love path] is powered by God's nature within us," I don't disagree.

And as I said above, I understand Al's concern about natural love efforts becoming "more important and are emphasized to such an extent that prayer and receiving the Divine Love is way back in the queue."

But I still am unaware of a specific activity that is exclusively about the Divine Love path besides praying for Divine Love. I should qualify that I mean a specific activity for beginners ... as I'd grant that channeling Celestial angels or guides is an exclusively Divine Love activity.

I'm mostly arguing for including so-called natural love activities in a Divine Love journey in terms of their benefit for our bodies and our minds, which (hopefully) support our soul development. I don't think we should throw the activities away because the natural love path is a lesser path.