Tithing & offering

[jmmagno30]

Im also reading Padgett message from new-birth.net.
Thanks Geoff.

[Geoff]

Almost a year now that I never go to church, but I always pray everyday and ask for the divine love and experience it while Im here on earth.

Dear Manny,

Good on you. It takes time, but you will feel the difference in you if you are serious and consistent and persistent. To be honest, far too few have the tenacity to follow through year after year. It probably would be a lot easier if we had communities everywhere where we could get the social and community support that is so helpful. Which is why we need to build more circles of light.

My wife and some of my friends always laugh at me, when I say about divine love and and what is life after death but I just smile back to them.

Yeah thats common. Not easy to handle, but you will stand alone after death, might as well stand alone now? Once I realised that I could not do anything except "own" what i believed in, it became a lot easier to walk alone on my path. Of course in this forum I have many great friends, and I am fortunate enough to talk to them on Skype and to see them a few times each year.

hugs
Geoff

[AlFike]

I feel for your struggles Manny. So many who choose something different and more progressive must face these challenges. We are lucky to have what we have here and I hope that you will check in regularly. Just remember that we are never alone. God and His Angels have our backs and no matter what anyone else thinks, you are on the right track. Many churches survive on brainwashing and fear. You saw through the game and decided to find something that is of a higher standard. My prayers are with you my friend and your family. Remember that by doing what you are doing, you will open a door for those you love. They may not go through right away but you will light the way and in time they will follow. Patience and faith my friend, patience and faith. Much love......Al

[Pamela]

I have been persecuted by other Christians for not tithing. And even had a time when I was in need of groceries while the other tithers at a certain church gave into the offering very pridefully but never once offer to help me buy groceries for my family. My family that day went home with out any help. It was my cursing, drinking,smoking sister in law that help me with groceries that day not the church.

I left that church and find one that did help the poor.

Dear Pamela,

Its so sad that they all missed the point of Jesus' teachings while they focus on something else.

hugs
Geoff

Yes. The church treasurer put me down for being in a bad situation. I was fired from my welfare job for not getting my driver's licenses. I just couldn't get anyone at church to teach me to drive. Career link talked the welfare worker into stopping my food stamps and medical insurance to punish me but she didn't listen to them. Instead she paid this old man to teach me to drive and he was a very patient old man. I got my driving licenses at age 37. I am 50 now. Getting my driver licenses changed my life for the better. It made me independent to where I could work.

So the church treasurer said some unkind things to me that day at church that i wasn't good at managing money etc. I wrote him a letter and share a scripture in the Bible with him that if a brother and sister is in need and you don't help them how can the love of God be in you.

The church treasurer never read his letter because the pastor open his mail instead and read it and the following Sunday after church he dismissed the flock and invited me to a meeting and strongly rebuke me in front of his elders and deacons. He told me I was wrong for rebuking an elder and I told him I had no ideal that he was an elder then he told me to shut up. I was put down for not having a man in my life that I could submit too. He felt that I should hand my money over to my dad to control or to them to control.

I left that church and find another church to to too that wasn't so controling.

[AlFike]

That was a good move Pamela. A church which is punitive and controlling is all about the ways of man rather than the ways of God. The truth is meant to set us all free rather than bind us to one another in controlling ways. Binding in Love yes, not judgement and anger. You certainly have gone from pillar to post in your spiritual search. I hope that you have now found a measure of truth in your life and some folks who are more loving. God bless......Al

[Pamela]

That was a good move Pamela. A church which is punitive and controlling is all about the ways of man rather than the ways of God. The truth is meant to set us all free rather than bind us to one another in controlling ways. Binding in Love yes, not judgement and anger. You certainly have gone from pillar to post in your spiritual search. I hope that you have now found a measure of truth in your life and some folks who are more loving. God bless......Al

For about a year I have done u tub church. What is nice about this is you can pick your favorite TV preacher to listen too and when ever I need to go to the bath room I can pause the preacher. I can also pause him or her when a phone call comes in.

I love Joyce Meyers she is my favorite. Today I am listening to Cherie Beltram on the mandala effect while I am doing house work. This is what I love about u tub church I can clean my house and hear preaching at the same time. Cherie preaches both science and the bible and she shares about what our government is doing behind close doors.

The mandala effect part one

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Yq_CKwzoLtk

I have recently find a small church that I am going too called Trail of Hopes ministry by pastor Sandy. Sandy and her husband brought the old Henicles market and turn it into a church. They also brought the house next to it and turn it into a place for the Appalachian mountains hikers to stay for a night or how ever long they need to stay.

This place has lots of memories because I used to work at Henicles market when I was 16 and my brother Keith also worked there when he was 16 and he worked though High school until he went into the army.

This was the place my family went when we needed groceries. Who would have thought that one day it would become a church. I remembered a Christian lady that lived down stairs in the house next to the store and my boss and his wife and son lived upstairs. The boss would have Christmas parties for the workers and it was always a drinking party. Anita the lady down stairs would pray for the boss and drunk co workers. I believe some how God heard her prayers because today it is a ministry.

[Eva]

I enjoyed reading this thread and the many interesting points that have been brought out here. Here are a few of my thoughts.

The New Testament does record Jesus as speaking about tithing and supporting it. This is understandable, since he was born into the culture of Judaism which was based on the Old Testament scriptures, including the laws of tithing. He however points out how meticulous tithers can neglect the far more important things, including love, justice, mercy and compassion (Matthew 23:23-28; Luke 11:42-47,52; Luke 18:10-14). Physical actions like tithing and fasting can be relatively easy to perform and lead their practitioners to think that they have fulfilled their duty toward God. They can then start feeling self-satisfied, self-righteous and even proud. In the verses I listed, Jesus rebuked the zealous tithers for neglecting the far more important matters like loving their neighbors.

If church leaders nowadays act in similar ways, it unfortunately discourages the people, sets a wrong example, and gives Christianity a bad name. It gets worse when leaders give themselves enormous salaries and live in extravagant conditions while shaming those who are not well off and feel they cannot afford to tithe.

I would agree that the tithing law is an Old Covenant law, pertaining to the Old Testament nation of Israel and the Jewish people. It doesn't appear later in the New Testament as the church spread and incorporated Gentile (non-Jewish) believers. Generous giving from the heart (which can be in the form of tithing if one wishes to make it so) to support the preaching of the gospel and helping the poor does however remain in effect.

2 Corinthians 9:6-8 sums the principles up well: "Remember this: Whoever sows sparingly will also reap sparingly, and whoever sows generously will also reap generously. Each man should give what he has decided in his heart to give, not reluctantly or under compulsion, for God loves a cheerful giver. And God is able to make all grace abound to you, so that in all things at all times, having all that you need, you will abound in every good work."

And of course, giving doesn't have to be in the form of money. We can give time or other resources. The principle is that if we are generous, we'll be blessed -- again maybe not in monetary terms, but rewards, even intangible ones, will come because "It is more blessed to give than to receive." (Acts 20:35).

I agree with Geoff about the importance and helpfulness of fellowship with like-minded believers and the need for more "Circles of Light". This forum is an excellent way to share, ask questions, and support one another. For those who don't have others on this path living near them (which is most of us), Skype is a wonderful tool to connect with others. There are several groups meeting during the week using Skype that Maureen has listed in a calendar at the front end of this website. So depending on what your time zone is, you may be able to join one.

For those who are struggling with making ends meet and would like some budgeting tips, I have written and published an experience-based book titled "Abundant Living on Low Income" which you can download as PDF for free at http://www.pathway-publishing.org/spiri ... low-income or purchase as Kindle or hard copy from Amazon.

Love,
Eva

[AlFike]

Great response Eva. Giving love is the greatest gift and everything done in love complies to the covenant of tithing. That can be a smile or a coin or an embrace. Most importantly it is what is given each day in tribute to our love of the Creator is what pleases God the most. We all can give something to someone and God will guide us in what is to be given to another if we are attuned to His Will. Love needs to inform everything we do and the natural outcome to having the Divine Love in our souls is a sort of generosity of spirit. We intuitively know what to give of ourselves and God provides the means to give it. That flow and circuit of giving both materially and of our hearts builds in momentum as we continue to seek ways of service and loving our brothers and sisters. It is not necessarily a church that should be the focus of our giving but it can be. Giving comes in many forms and if we support someone or something in love then we are blessed as powerfully as is the gift given. Often those who find it hard to give are those who find it hard to love. Be generous of heart and it will come back to you in many ways. A rich life is one filled with the riches of love. Those who do not have material wealth can certainly give of their hearts. Who is to say that giving love is less valuable than giving money? That person needs to reset their priorities and realize what is really important in life. I'll get off my soap box now. Much love....Al

PS: Its great that you found a few churches that you like Pamela. Fellowship is a great comfort on our spiritual path.

[jmmagno30]

"Abundant Living on Low Income" book

Thank you Eva for this book.
I will share it to all my friends.

Manny