My take on contemporary mediumship in the DL Movement

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AlFike
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Re: My take on contemporary mediumship in the DL Movement

Post by AlFike »

Hi James ,John et al. Again some interesting comments here. I understand Divine Love to be a transformative substance rather than a cousin or similar love to what we are born with. As such I think we are comparing apples and oranges here. They really can't be blended or considered two halves of a whole. Of course we must honor our natural God given attributes and exercise and express them as perfectly as we can . This is our life challenge and gift. Yet the Divine Love is an order above the natural love. A higher order that when sought after, absorbs and transforms our natural attributes to something Divinely different.

I suppose it is a matter of focus that I object to here. Those of us committed to receiving Divine Love are not as concerned about the operation of the natural love to the point of making the development of both on an equal playing field. After all, in time the natural love will be absorbed and transmuted by the Divine Love. That is not to say that we can express ourselves in this world with impunity and lack of grace. Of course living a moral life is imperative and desirable and working to remove the obstacles to this is a venture worth pursuing.. We all need to be good and loving people but I believe that thinking of the two loves as somewhat interchangeable is a mistake. In seeking the Divine Love, the development and refinement of the natural love will follow. The expression of our natural love is more often than not just common sense and very fluid. After all, we were born with it. How we express the Divine Love within us as a channel of God's Love is much more foreign to us since for all of us it is a new and foreign substance. We have to learn about it and integrate it into our being. Our soul growth in the Divine Love is our focus and our intrigue. Our responsibility is to learn how this Love operates and affects us. We also need to harmonize ourselves with the laws of God's Love which over ride so many other laws. Divine Love is the highest of all blessings. It does not compare with natural love because it is an infinite order above our human love. It is Divine. This is not spiritual snobbery, it is the truth.

I for one, want to go big or go home. So I seek for the highest. That is not to say that I am in a state of denial about the inner state of my being on an emotional or intellectual level. I monitor this almost constantly and in this I feel like at times it gets in the way of my sincere soul longings. My natural state dogs me where ever I go and cannot be denied or ignored. So it is obvious that this part of me is in constant operation and I believe this is why so many cannot see the forest for the trees in regards to acknowledging the existence of the Divine Love. They simply cannot get beyond the persistent distraction of our natural state of being and many find it imperative to feed the development of the natural love. That is why eastern philosophies and psychology etc. are far more attractive to spiritual seekers than our path. Too much focus on the development of our natural Love will detract from our soul growth in the Divine Love. They are two different ways that eventually must diverge in every souls progression.

I have ridden two rails so to speak for most of my life as my psychological health seemed at times to be more important and require more effort than my soul growth. You may argue that they go hand in hand and I would not disagree with you . So in this you may find a contradiction but if this is done in balance and soulful intent, then there is certainly no harm in it and probably a great deal of good. But they are two different paths none the less. We all have free will and can approach our inner growth whichever way we like. God does not object one way or another so I wish anyone well who makes any attempt of improving their spiritual state. They are my brothers and sisters. I am not above or better than them. Yet I feel like I have a leg up with what I know as the natural path is so much more arduous than ours. It all includes a measure of pain and sweat equity so to speak but ours is gentler and I believe faster. Throw in a little bit of psychological help and away we go ;) .

So I'm not sure if I've offended some of you, confused you or brought agreement. Probably all three. In reading these threads, I felt like I must make these points. I worry that some reading these discussions may get the wrong idea of what the Divine Path is. There are important distinctions and truths to be acknowledged. The natural love cannot be denied and as I have said, can be a distraction if given precedence. Divine Love is king in this house and I would like to see more discussion on that than the natural love. Just my humble opinion. Much love to you.........Al
Endless journey,endless Love.

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Geoff
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Re: My take on contemporary mediumship in the DL Movement

Post by Geoff »

This thread seems to have diverted considerably from the original topic? As to the matter of divine love vs natural love, a very recent message on the issue of healing emotional traumas has a simple line:
Joseph the father wrote:As we have said in the beginning, only love is able to heal. Whether it is the Love of God or the love of man, is of no importance, as long as it is pure enough to look beyond the veil of flesh.
I think this discussion of the difference is perhaps of no importance? Or certainly of less importance than many seek to make it. Yes we MUST obtain Divine Love to reach the seventh. Time is unimportant. You cannot escape living with natural love here on earth. You cannot escape starting purely with natural love. If this statement is true:
Mortal man cannot possibly know the infinitude of the heavenly Father. Finite mind cannot think through such an absolute truth or fact. But this same finite human being can actually feel--literally experience--the full and undiminished impact of such an infinite Father's LOVE. Such a love can be truly experienced, albeit while quality of experience is unlimited, quantity of such an experience is strictly limited by the human capacity for spiritual receptivity and by the associated capacity to love the Father in return.
then the development of one's natural love is what causes you to be able to receive large amounts of Divine Love.
Al wrote: I understand Divine Love to be a transformative substance rather than a cousin or similar love to what we are born with. As such I think we are comparing apples and oranges here. They really can't be blended or considered two halves of a whole.
Well I think that you are missing some issues here. Love whether it be natural or divine is an ENERGY FORM. Both can and do heal. One is an IMAGE of the other. One has everything to do with the eternal, the other does not. They are certainly very close, even cousins, but not immediate family. Much as may be said about our souls, vs the One Soul.

hugs
Geoff

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Re: My take on contemporary mediumship in the DL Movement

Post by James »

Hi Al and others,
I do enjoy these discussions.

I must say here that though I speak of Natural Love and Divine Love, I don't know what love is in fact nor how it is made or just what it is to do. All that I say about Love is an abstraction and an understanding gained from much study and living. My understandings may be right or wrong or partially true. I don't know. What I think I 'know' has changed a lot over my lifetime as I have progressed. I believe that we are all expressions of energy in its many forms but also don't understand this. From long experience I am reluctant to call my understanding 'knowledge' as I consider that I am constantly approaching knowledge while in a state of relative ignorance and that is OK. I remain open.

For all I know DL and NL may bear no relationship to each other except that they are both creations and gifts of God and therefore to be respected and revered.

I don't know the definition of a Divine Love Path but consider myself to be on one. I have the view that it is likely that everyone treading such a path is following a unique path in a common specific direction. I respect this totally and am always interested to see and hear the differences considering that I have much to learn. I also consider that we probably have more similarities and agreement than difference and that the differences are less significant than the similarities.
I will say that I don't regard the expression of natural love to be largely common sense and a look at the world suggests that there is a profound lack of common sense and the healthy expression of NL.

In discussions I hope that I will learn more as we share.

Can we aim high without a solid, reliable and well developed foundation? I think it is hard to divorce the two and, therefore, seek harmony

With Much love,
James

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Re: My take on contemporary mediumship in the DL Movement

Post by brother dave k. »

After Prayer for the Divine Love, deep, quiet meditation with the Celestials with a burning desire for only the Truth will provide the inspirations of their experiences and observations, the insights and realizations of the soul that yearns to know the Truths of God.

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Re: My take on contemporary mediumship in the DL Movement

Post by AlFike »

Thanks James for your honest and loving response. None of us are experts here and I agree with you that we are like babes in the woods, casting about for explanation's of something so mysterious and ethereal in their pure forms that words cannot adequately express what these two loves are. I know what they feel like and delineate the difference in this subjective way. That's really all I have to go on except for a surety within that there is a big difference. Again very subjective but a powerful motivator to help me focus on the 'higher Love' as opposed to the natural love. And I wholeheartedly agree with you that we need to go about this in our own way and time. I am an experiencer rather than an intellectual so my approach has always been to concentrate on the experience of communing with God and receiving His Love. Words do not hold a lot of sway with me which is ironic since I tend to be pretty wordy ( much to Geoff's consternation :lol: ). I believe that we can only feebly attempt to share what it is that is going on for us in this process of being transformed by the Love and claimed by God. Since in this venue we only have words, we have to work with what we've got . Through a glass darkly eh!

I am looking so forward to meeting you James and the others in person in Australia this May so that we can pray together and share that knowing that is wordless and brings us all closer in the process. Sharing this makes us brothers and sisters in the Love and forges bonds that I believe will be eternal. Then the words truly will not matter. It's that sharing in the Love, bonding and reaching for the Love together that makes us kindred souls. How our minds interpret this is secondary. What we feel in our souls has such greater import in the long run.

Thank you again James for reaching out here in your open and honest ways. Yes, I believe that we both are walking that path Divine and to acknowledge the uniqueness of how we do so is a gift and a at times a challenge but I believe that we are both mature enough to do so in graceful loving ways. You are my brother and I am honored to have you in my spiritual family. God bless you dear soul............Al
Endless journey,endless Love.

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Re: My take on contemporary mediumship in the DL Movement

Post by brother dave k. »

Well Al all that I can say is "word on!" Still enjoying your posts.

much love to you brother, dave k.

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Re: My take on contemporary mediumship in the DL Movement

Post by AlFike »

As a late addition to this thread I have found a very pertinent message in the Padgett materials regarding the use of mediums in the original church. It is from John the beloved and he tells of the importance of the communication with spirit in those days long past. I've taken a portion of this long message in order to highlight my points about the value of mediumship in this day and age. Here it is dated September 12, 1915:



(Answer to question by Mr. Padgett follows:)

.

Among my children or believers in the Christian religion were many persons who had the power or gift of communicating with the spirits of the departed, and did so communicate; and such communications were made known to the rest of the congregation and believed by them. And hence, my injunction against communion with those spirits who were not believers in Christ.

You must not think that this is the only age in which spirits communicate with mortals, for I must tell you that in my time it was much more common than now; and in our congregations when worshipping and when in our other gatherings, and often in private, we had these communications.

This was an important part of the services of our meetings, and one that kept us in constant harmony with the soul power of those who lived in the spirit form, and from whom we received powers of healing and of doing good in many other ways.

In those days healing the sick and doing kindred things were a very important part of our work as Christians. We believed what Jesus had told us on earth, and we increased our faith and performed many works, which the people who did not believe as we did, thought were miracles. To us the healing of the sick and the doing of these other things were just as natural as eating and sleeping. I tell you that our faith then was a certainty. We possessed the Substance that Paul speaks of, and we expected to do the things just as we expected to breathe and be able to do material good to our brothers.

But after a few centuries, when men came into the church for other purposes than to receive the New Birth and do the will of the Father, faith, such as I speak of, died, and the power to do these things was taken away from men, and the church became a congregation of men having the mere lip worship.

And all through the centuries from then until now, this power has not been with men, except that here and there some true believer with a faith such as we had has appeared, and done wonderful things.

So I say, let not what the Bible may say about Jesus being God and having those other qualities with reference to the salvation of men, disturb you in your beliefs in what the Master may write you.

I will not write more tonight, but will say good night.

Your brother in Christ,

John




Misc | Healing |

Mediumship.
Endless journey,endless Love.

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Re: My take on contemporary mediumship in the DL Movement

Post by James »

Hi Al,
That is a really good statement and certainly seems to fit well with the experience that many of us have had. The antipathy to mediumship has become deeply rooted over the ages and created heaps of suspicion and fear in many. Despite this there appears to be growing interest in death and after life and communication with spirits even if for mainly mundane interests. Much of this is, I believe, the work of spirit working gently to break down resistance. I was told by spirit many years ago that the cartoon 'Casper the Friendly Ghost' was spirit inspired and intended to introduce spirit presence as non-threatening.

I feel that our challenge is to continue dong what we do with faith and good will as we progress and grow in spirit. I also feel very strongly that it is essential that we have a good time doing it! No fun no gain. I think that this will be my new motto.

With much love
James

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Re: My take on contemporary mediumship in the DL Movement

Post by DennisT »

Another great message from the Padgett works!

I am reminded of this message every time I hear or read about some Christian group damning mediums as conjuring up the devil, quoting the relevant scripture that John speaks of.

If people only knew the Truths!

I too agree that there is a growing interest in the Afterlife, even if not from a religious or spiritual nature. Look at the amount of movies coming out regarding the subject, and I'm ignoring the usual Halloween themes that junk up the theaters at a this time of year. Also, Pop mediums are growing, at least here in the states. I would believe this is all part of our Angels' work and of God's Plan.

Love and hugs,
Dennis

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Re: My take on contemporary mediumship in the DL Movement

Post by arie2012 »

Great to read this message again. Thanks, Al.

I particularly like this passage: "To us the healing of the sick and the doing of these other things were just as natural as eating and sleeping."

Pity though, that contemporary mediumship is not generally accepted in our movement..
I personally think that is very sad and difficult to understand.

Hugs,
Arie

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