My take on contemporary mediumship in the DL Movement

[AlFike]

One of the more contentious issues facing our movement is the controversy over contemporary messages given by present day mediums. I know I have written about this subject in other places on this forum but this essay was written last November and I wish to share it with you now as I think it contains in a more in depth way my thoughts on the matter. I know that it's long, perhaps too long for the impatient reader but I believe it will help some to gain further insight into this topic which is very current for those of us engaged in the Divine Love movement. So here it is:



Part of our journey on this Divine Path includes the acknowledgement and inclusion of communication from the other side of life. Our lives are multi layered and complex. On our spiritual journey we strive to unravel these complexities in order to further our understanding of our ultimate purpose for existence and to find ways to enhance our lives. In order to facilitate this we rely on the knowledge and wisdom that comes from books and our prayer life and the resulting inflowing of God’s Divine Love and we undergo the trial and error that results from applying the Love in our lives and the teachings conveyed to us from spirit. The progression of our souls is influenced by our thoughts and our choices as we assess the knowledge imparted to us in these ways. Our progression can be fast or slow depending on what we accept as truth and how we apply these truths in our daily lives . We determine our own path as we seek truth in whatever ways we accept as valid and helpful. There is no prescribed method other than prayer and desire for the Love and we are encouraged to find our individual path through personal communion with the Divine source.

Our individual spiritual paths may be unique yet we are also given gifts of knowledge and truth from our guides and teachers. They can make great efforts to support and teach us as we make our journey to God. Their support for many is gratefully welcomed and appreciated as these complex spiritual challenges can at times become overwhelming and confusing. There are so many pulls and influences in our world that detract and distract us from our spiritual aspirations and the angels are ever willing to direct us back on course and to remind us about those important priorities that will bring to us spiritual enlightenment and balance. Our spiritual journey is in many ways not a singular one but one accompanied by a plethora of angels that watch over us every moment. They care for us because they recognize the value and beauty of our souls and their love and recognition for us is far greater than how we see ourselves.They have been sent by God to watch over us and this they do joyfully, And in that care and recognition comes a gift of communication and connection that can be very subtle to the untrained or undeveloped soul, or it can be dynamic and palpable to the gifted who are willing and open to these communications.

Some of us are gifted with the ability to allow our angel friends to speak through us in the form of trance mediumship. I don’t believe that this is the result of great spiritual progression or Divine ordination. I believe that it is the result of genetics and brain function. Either you are born with it or you are not and of course many who have this gift have no idea that this potential resides within them and in most cases that is a good thing as reckless development of these innate gifts can cause a great deal of havoc. This is not a gift that you can decide to develop out of curiosity and fun and not take seriously the fallout that may result from casually becoming a medium. A good grounding in the understanding of the laws of communication and rapport are a must and I believe that a good spiritual foundation is a requirement for most who wish to use it to assist others. It’s not a hobby; it’s a way of life. You are irrevocably changed by it. You are opening the door to have part of your being released in trust to another being and this can potentially lead to all kinds of mental and emotional complications if not done in a cautious, respectful and informed way. This earth is full of many influences and one had better be prepared for an onslaught of diverse and even malevolent spirits trying to make a rapport if there is no overt attempt to control and protect this open door.

On the Divine Path we are blessed with powerful and loving spirits who are always there to protect and guide us. We are precious charges in their sight and are never neglected or abandoned unless we overtly engage in negativity. That willful act will cause a distancing in accordance to the laws of rapport. Our thoughts are powerful determinants to our overall light, spiritual condition and experiences. As we all know this world can bring the best of us down and that struggle to remain positive and in the light can be so very challenging. We are aspiring angels living in what can be at times a living hell. When you add the complications of mediumship, that struggle is exponentially more difficult as the energetic conditions one experiences are potent and hard to shake off. There is more of a tendency to take on or have these unwelcome energies fuse with yours. An unexpected blast of negativity can be so jarring that it may take days to recover. Increased sensitivity is the inevitable result of open mediumship. It is the price one pays and certainly will bring undesirable consequences without vigilance. We are thankfully all blessed with gatekeepers who protect us from many of these influences but a willful or inadvertent exposure to negative energies cannot always be deflected by our helpers. I take care to pray for the cloak of protection from all spirits and influence that are not celestial on a daily basis. This simple prayer goes a long way to insuring that a light that repels negativity surrounds me and keeps at a distance those spirits that are not of the highest.

I believe it is important for all of us to say this prayer and especially those who have mediumistic abilities because there are a vast array of influences out there eager to have a gifted soul who can be used to convey their message to mortals. Many of these spirits have very good intentions and are filled with light. They do not however have a firm understanding of the Divine Love as do the celestial angels. I believe that the challenge and responsibility that comes with being a medium on the Divine Pathway is to be conscious of this choice for the highest teachers and to be true to these intentions of having only the highest come through. This requires discernment and vigilance. This coupled with the cloak of protection , the inner light of God’s Love within and the gate keeping roles that our guides provide will keep the doors open to higher celestial teachers and none others.

It is my belief that if as a medium, if one opens to these lower spirits that the quality of the information channeled by the celestials is compromised to some degree. This happens in two ways. In one regard when a spirit comes through a medium, they leave behind a sort of signature on the spirit body (mind) of that medium. This subtle marker can make it easier for that spirit to come through in the future and the more times this happens, the easier it becomes for them to make rapport. Secondly, as this rapport becomes more palpable it becomes harder for the medium to discern the difference between the natural and the celestial spirits since the rapport portal if you will becomes more fluid and without firm boundaries. The information becomes a mixed bag of natural and Divine Path influences and the medium’s mind is invariably shaped and altered by the process, hence contamination occurs.

Being a channel for high spiritual teachers is a very great blessing and a privilege that as mortals we can’t truly comprehend. In this gift comes a need to honor it by not willfully opening ourselves to other influences. There are indeed a great deal of options and perspectives available to us since worldwide communications are open to us. It is as easy as a click of a button to explore many different ways of meditation, explanations of the workings of the universe and prescriptions for spiritual growth and enlightenment. What we fill our minds up with will determine our thinking in this regard and as a medium, if one pursues the natural path lines of thinking and believes these teachings to some degree, one will attract those spirits and invariably convey those thoughts. I’m not suggesting here that everyone should just read Padgett and nothing else. That is what has been the downfall of our religious institutions of late. Closed mindedness leads to stagnation and rigidity. But after travelling through these options and perspectives and hopefully coming to the conclusion that the simple truths conveyed with the Divine Love are what you want, then one can truly commit to this path and way of thinking and being. Commitment coupled with prayer and nurturing your mind with these truths will open your soul to the Love and attract the angels by your side. At this point, gifts such as mediumship can open in a harmonious way. If an individual seeks to force the opening of these gifts in order to obtain recognition or proof of their worth, then since their motivation does not come from soul growth, they will invariably receive communications from a lower source. That is not to say that they will not receive celestial teachings as well but the likelihood of having the natural teachings mixed in is greater. A soul filled with the Divine Love and well grounded with the understandings and laws regarding the Love will have no trouble discerning the differences between the higher and lower teachings nor will they be confused or compromised. Soul discernment coupled with the spirit of truth residing within will insure an expression of the highest.
The question of how to use the gift of mediumship in our movement has long been debated. There has been a great deal of speculation as to the veracity and value of messages delivered after the Padgett era. Contemporary messages, as we call them ,have in many ways been all over the map in terms of information conveyed and overall tone. Of course every medium will influence and to some extent determine the content of the message conveyed. There is always some speculation concerning the origin of these messages. Are they really from celestial spirits or imposters? Is the medium genuine? Does this message add to our understanding of the workings of the Divine Love and all the laws surrounding these truths or are they merely rewording what has been conveyed through James Padgett? Is it important that contemporary mediums strive to add more truth to the body of truths already given? Trusting in the source and the intention of the message is an ongoing debate. Others have tried to bring in other teachings with little success. These issues can only be answered by the individual as they seek to add to or reject each offered piece to the puzzle of truth. For many, some of the messages resonate and inspire while others do not. The ongoing issue is; are we willing to accept more input from spirit through contemporary mediums or have the doors closed on accessing higher truths? Is Padgett the one and only true source of all things concerning Divine Love and all other sources are to be ignored or at the very least given less weight? These are contentious issues and this can of worms is not readily opened. Yet this issue remains as long as mediums are willing to proffer messages given by spirit in the desire to further truth amongst us and we are willing to listen. There will always be very gifted and dedicated mediums like Padgett and those seeking credibility through insisting that the fruits of their gifts are credible and equal to Padgett . We all acknowledge that Padgett’s body of work is seminal and without dispute in terms of their veracity and quality.The basic truths given through Padgett are demonstratably true The amount of truth and information is phenomenal and could take a lifetime to study and to understand. The question is ; do we need more to study? What are we missing and are those missing parts really relevant to the ongoing pursuit of receiving and growing with the Divine Love? My short answer is that the Padgett materials are certainly enough for anyone willing to dedicate themselves to the Divine Path. My long answer is that no body of work could encompass all the truths in God’s universe. They must be as infinite as the universe itself but does the pursuit of more facts and truths lead to a soul being closer to the fountainhead of God’s Love? In the banquet of truth are we capable of over eating and what part of us are we feeding in this endeavor?

My own experience with mediumship has been a long road of observation and understanding. My first experience with it was dramatic. I came literally face to face with my beloved Confucius forty years ago through my friend Barb in her dining room. A young man of twenty, this was a startling encounter where Barb’s face turned into a wizened Chinese man complete with oriental eyes. She left and an unmistakable presence was there in her place. He told me about the Divine Love and what started as a curiosity about what a medium was grew into a soulful recognition of the truth. Her gift convinced me to listen and if she had told me about Divine Love herself without this powerful reinforcement, I wonder if I would have taken to the truth of the Divine Love so readily. Through the years, I and our small group of DL followers received hundreds of messages through two mediums present in the group. None of their words contradicted the truths received through Padgett. Very little new information was received either but what was almost always conveyed was encouragement and cajoling to pray for more Divine Love. The loving support of spirit helped to bolster our efforts to remain on the Divine Path. God had provided us with yet another way to spur our soul growth ever forward. I will forever be grateful for these loving efforts of our celestial friends and the gifts offered freely by our gifted sisters. Mediumship in this context provided a vital link between us and spirit that may fundamentally not be necessary for our continued soul growth but was certainly a blessing and a gift.

My own experience of opening up as a medium was entirely unexpected. I didn’t even know I had the gift. As Barb’s health began to fail, I was told by spirit that it was time for me to step forward. I was perplexed because I really did not know what they meant by stepping forward. After a few such messages, they finally spelled it out and that they would like to speak through me. My first reaction was that I was not entirely sure that I wanted the responsibility of this role. After all, it’s much easier to sit back and receive the message than to be the one giving it and I certainly had a bit of performance anxiety and doubt about this ability. The first message came through well enough and spirit indicated that they had used me in this way before but I had not recognized it at the time. You must be thinking that I must be pretty out to lunch to be so unaware. I might tend to agree with you and ironically being out to lunch is part of the process of mediumship. Being able to step back and allow the words to flow without knowing where they are going is, to say the least, a unique experience but not one that is uncommon. I’m sure some of you have experienced this altered state to some degree or another. The trick is not to jump in or edit or judge what is coming and to have sufficient faith and trust that this is going in an intended direction, just not your intended direction. Of course there are other aspects of the process that involve signals and familiar sensations but these tend to be unique to each medium. Suffice to say that in order to feel comfortable and confident with the process, I at least need this somewhat ritualized series of sensations and signals and spirit never fail to unlock the safe with this secret code.

My impression is that the angels are very willing and happy to speak to us in this way and that their efforts are substantial in order to come down to our level and are a gift of Love. They nurture us through their words and their more material presence amongst us. To experience the gift of an angel speaking to you in a prayer circle is to experience their loving presence and energetic uplifting effect. Their words are almost secondary to the blissful presence of their beautiful countenance. They come because of our desire for the Love and their desire to uphold us in this pursuit. They come to teach and to heal. They come because God has made it possible for them to come; riding on a wave of Divine Love. Of course they come to all of us in our sincere seeking for the Love but many of us cannot hear or see them. The gift of hearing their words is something that I am very grateful to be able to be a part of. I would wish that every follower on this path have the experience that our small circle has been blessed with.

In conclusion I would like to say that mediumship has its place in our movement. After all, without James Padgett’s willingness to go there we would certainly not be here. Celestial spirits are able and willing to make contact in this way. It is part of the gift of the Divine Love which makes possible this contact with the very high teachers in the Celestial heavens. The tricky part is discerning what is truly a celestial spirit attempting to make rapport and what is not. Lower spirits will readily identify themselves as Celestial in order to make contact and if we are eager to accept their false identification because of a human need for recognition and acceptance and a lack of discernment then we fall short of the goal and taint the process causing confusion and doubt. There is no easy way around this dilemma as our egos and desires can cause many obstructions in our pursuit of truth and Love. All of us have some desire for recognition and may consciously or unwittingly open ourselves up to lower spirits as an attempt to fulfill our needs, ambitions and desires. This is a very understandable and human thing to do. I have been an open medium for a few years now and consider myself quite disciplined in terms of only allowing celestial spirits to speak through me and have a healthy respect for the pitfalls of mediumship and yet sometimes I wonder if this is 100 percent the case. How much of my ego and mind filters get in the way of the process? Have I inadvertently allowed a higher spirit yet not a celestial spirit through? I know I have received false guidance in the past although this was through clairaudience and not spoken through me. So there are pitfalls but I do not believe these are powerful enough that avoidance of this gift is the best course. It’s a learning process and missteps are inevitable. So far I have not encountered anything dramatically out of harmony. I’ve certainly felt far more difficulty with others here on earth than any spirit I’ve encountered. Any guidance given in this way must be assessed for its veracity. Nothing should be taken for granted. Testing the spirits is necessary and those who are celestial expect it. They will also never over ride your free will. Ultimately the litmus test is feeling the Love that emanates from the celestials since this is of an unmistakable quality. Without this vital signal, it’s a no go in terms of speaking through me. I have had spirits ask but have refused because I did not feel their Love in this way.

I believe that with the right intentions, a desire for the highest and for the Divine Love coupled with discipline and discernment, mediumship will serve us well in the cause for Divine Love. Can we overcome our fear that we will be lead astray by false guidance? This remains to be seen as we all grow in the Love. With the inflowing of God’s Love comes a recognition of truth. Its veracity comes from a deeply embedded soul ability to discern truth. The spirit of truth that wells up from the soul gives us the perceptions needed to find our way through the forest of channeled messages. Resonance is key. Openness is also required and testing whatever is being said. Truth must work for us on a daily basis and if that truth comes through the gift of mediumship then we must accept that God is gifting us with another way of growing our souls. God bless anyone who is willing to listen and discern truth in whatever form it comes. With love…………..Al Fike

[arie2012]

Great writing, Al. Thank you so much for sharing your thoughts on this important subject.

Let me assure you that both Marion and I are completely convinced of the integrity of your mediumship. The love, the wisdom and moreover the humbleness that you emanate have impressed us from the very beginning.

It's a great gift to have you as a leading person in this movement and your determination, clearness and honesty are a true source of inspiration to us.

Thank you, Al..

Much Love and hugs,
Arie & Marion

[Geoff]

The tricky part is discerning what is truly a celestial spirit attempting to make rapport and what is not. Lower spirits will readily identify themselves as Celestial in order to make contact and if we are eager to accept their false identification because of a human need for recognition and acceptance and a lack of discernment then we fall short of the goal and taint the process causing confusion and doubt. There is no easy way around this dilemma as our egos and desires can cause many obstructions in our pursuit of truth and Love.

Dear Al,

Gee you are right, that was long. And my only disagreement that I have probably not voiced previously, but have regularly felt when this sentiment has been expressed, is that its NOT the spirit that matters, but the message. And i don't care if the spirit is not a Celestial. There have been quite a few unidentified messages. You are overlooking the fact that spirits help other spirits at every level. And Father designed it that way. If a message is helpful, and resonates with Truth, that is what matters. Nothing else. There are plenty of natural path techniques that can help us.

However, I recognise the separate issue of a medium potentially becoming affected by non-celestials. I feel you are running these two ideas together, and that is not correct. Padgett was initially supported strongly by Jesus when he helped dark spirits. Later he was not so pleased, but it was really because Padgett became more interested in the dark spirits, than the Celestials. And he neglected his soul development, and did not give them time either.

Can we overcome our fear that we will be lead astray by false guidance?

Indeed. Fear and love do not coincide. If you have a level of fear, you are self-limiting. And if you end up believing in something thats wrong, it frankly won't matter a damm. I like to repeat what I learnt by reading a 3000 years old wisdom called Kybalion: Every truth is but a half Truth.

No matter how hard you try, on this Earth we simply won't get further than half-Truths.

hugs
Geoff

[AlFike]

excerpt from vol. II, p. 164, .

And if a test is necessary, I think a better one would be: try the spirits and every one who does not acknowledge that Jesus is the best beloved son of God, and brought to the knowledge of mankind the rebestowal of the Divine Love, and declared to men the way in which that Love may be obtained, is not a spirit that should be communicated with for the purpose of learning spiritual truths.

Dear Geoff, I thought I would start with this definitive bit of guidance for Padgett in book II. This certainly draws the line in the sand from the point of view of the celestials and this is my line as well. As for half truths, I believe that the Divine Love is real, God exists, there is a world of life beyond the physical, that we can receive God's Essence through prayer,we can come to know God through this practice of receiving His Divine Love and love is the most important thing. These are not half truths in my mind but full and rich knowings that I cannot refute within myself. I agree with you that there are many half truths out there and I wonder what the source of these materials are ? I know that I am sounding a bit like a Padgett fundamentalist here and in some ways I am because there is enough there to feed our spiritual longings for at least this life and I also know that these truths have not been and possibly cannot be fully explained. They must be experienced to be known in a complete way. Yet, I would rather carry with me my basket of full truths that I know, rather than one filled with half truths. The truths that I know serve me well every day. The rest borders on speculation which, for some, is a desired dance but for me is a distraction. Do I feel limited....absolutely not. Am I happy with this choice....completely. I believe that the true key to understanding a spiritual path is focus. This sort of commitment will bring one far along in truly understanding and living it .Our path is called the Divine Path as delineated from the Natural Path. It's foundations are built on the truths that I have stated here and without the acceptance and exercising of these truths, there can be no going down this path.

Mixing Natural Path teachings with Divine Love teachings only serves to muddy the waters and create confusion. It is a natural tendency to do so since our intellects hunger for details in order to comfort the mind and ego. It is hard to operate from that place that is pure soul. Very few have done this in our world. The only one I know of is Jesus. Yet that is our challenge and our dilemma. We must develop our souls by praying for God's Essence to ignite it to life and until this happens in a complete way, I suppose we all walk two paths as the natural is already an innate part of us. In order to transmute our natural and human tendencies into something Divine, we must fervently pray for the Love to enter our souls and work it's magic. After all, the invitation is for us to walk the path that takes us from mortal to immortal, human to Divine. Atonement with God is the goal. This will never be accomplished by feeding our minds with all the understandings of the workings of God's vast Creation yet paradoxically, these things will come as the soul mind is ignited to life. It seems like a backward process to the intellect but it is a truth that, as yet, I do not fully understand but that spirit of truth within says a big YES to.

So Geoff, I would much rather spend more time praying and thinking about the wonders of God's Love than read another interpretation and dissection of what is out there. Every moment is a choice and a challenge to seek harmony within, light and truth. That is the essence of a spiritual calling. My way of answering that call is to focus on receiving more of that magical Love from God. This IS the key to the Kingdom. Over the years I have read a lot of books and in my youth I've tried a lot of ways to reach a higher level of consciousness but nothing has brought me to greater joy and spiritual fulfillment like these simple truths and I believe that for all of us who have been blessed enough to know this, our search is over. I don't judge those who insist that there is more to it. I'm only saying that it will come in it's own time as we grow in the Love.

I aslo want to comment that since I'm the one who is allowing spirit to take over part of my consciousness, then I would much rather follow the precept stated in my beginning quote than risk the chaos of inconsistent influences. It just doesn't make sense to me. I am forever grateful to those who mentored me from the beginning to always reach for the highest. There may come a day Geoff, where I will be forced to eat my words but honestly I don't think that day will come. I rest in the arms of my Loving Creator. What more can one truly want? Much love to you dear brother...........Al

[Geoff]

Dear Al,

Well it is a half truth that the Divine Love will by itself cause you to become a Celestial. I rest my case. And by the way, you have to LIVE the LOVE. Reading what you claim above, suggests you don't wish to. I know that you do however, but the way you state what you prefer, it sounds like you would rather be a monk in a cave. I know that is not the truth. The point is, I LIVE the LOVE differently to you.

And if what Werner is sharing, which he is getting from spirit, is on the money, I think your challenge will arrive sooner than later. I am not referring to who you channel, which is always your right, but the need to merge with other outreaches that also have at their base, even if mostly hidden, Divine Love. Last night we heard from John the Beloved, Joseph the father, and Richard. had an awesome prayer session, just 4 of us. Filled the place with celestials. I also believe we will hear from Faith. I was nudged to buy a recorder, which I did.

And here is a very simple thing, that is outside of the P Messages but critical. If someone is sufficiently damaged by life, as to not love themselves, they cant feel the Divine Love. They need a natural path technique to solve that, THEN they can get the LOVE. You will have to help such people at some time, and I already know both you and Jeanne have told me you have both "done the work". So your bald statement here is simply not a correct assessment of your own life. You have not recognised this simple issue. If we are to help people, we need tools.

Hugs
Geoff

[AlFike]

It seems that I have touched a nerve here Geoff which was not my intention. I was merely stating my truth as best I can. If you felt that is was a personal attack then I apologize. We all have the right to believe whatever we like since everyone has their unique path to atonement. I know that I can get a little preachy and if I am guilty of that then I have been called on it. There are some fundamental things that we disagree on and this has been hashed out in the past so I hope we are not going to waste our time going over these differences. You know what I think because I have been more than clear about it and I believe I know your opinions as well. What is important is that we are praying for the Love. This common effort unites us and bonds us with a mutual understanding. What we think about that in terms of interpreting our experiences will vary as we are different in our perceptions and mental programs. This mindal perspective is, in my opinion, not that important. It's what is happening in our souls that is the real deal and the closer we can get to that, the closer we can come to understand and love one another. There is no competition here Geoff and I am not trying to best anyone. We all give what we can in whatever way we can. God will use us in accordance with this principle and may we all be used to bring truth to this world in the fullest capacity possible. With love and respect........Al

Ps: I would love to be a monk in a cave since my best moments of the day are in prayer but as you know, God has a different idea as to how my life is to unfold. I had a day today of gardening by myself in an unusually mild winter's day. It was bliss.

[Terry Adler]

Dear Al, Geoff and Everyone,

My apologies for having disappeared from the Forum since before Blackpool. Things have been happening in my inner life that felt too intimate to write about and the demands of my outer world have left little time for visiting the Forum, much less posting.

I was drawn to "catch-up" this afternoon, and found this exchange between the two of you dear men. To me, the apparent disagreement between you has to do with language. Geoff used the phrase "half-truths" which means something quite particular to him; to Al, it has another meaning. So each is advocating for his own understanding of what this means, and what "truth" means. The point of view of both is equally valid from the perspective out of which they each spring.

All I can say with authenticity is what I understand by "half-truths" in the context of my perspective. From this perspective, "half-truths" means to me that on this earth, in the stage of soul progression I am now in, even the whole Truth of our Father's Divine Love is hidden from me. I know His Love only so far as its Presence in my soul allows me to. Even when I am in spirit I expect there will be a duration filled with continued soul yearning on my part before I achieve the degree of atonement in which I can say "I know the Truth of His Love". For to me, "knowing" refers to the knowing of the soul, and the soul mind, rather than that of the material mind. I am not putting the knowing of the material mind down, for the more we can learn with our minds that is supportive and in sync with what our souls are learning (in another sense of the word "learning"), the better. I believe that as our soul perceptions grow, they prompt us or guide us to discover knowledge that nurtures our material mind, along with the action of our souls as it informs our mind through the agency of the Love.

When I read what Al wrote, this is what I understand him to be saying. The key to knowing the whole Truth is our free-will choice in seeking, yearning, praying for the Love and choosing to implement the Love in every thought and deed. With the inflowing of the Love our soul progression grows and our soul knowing grows. This is an infinite process, with no limits on it, through eternity (whatever that is!).

When Geoff says "if someone is sufficiently damaged by life as to not love themselves, they can't feel the Divine Love" and "need a natural pathway technique to solve that, then they can get the Love" I must say my personal experience with my own inner life and my experiences as an art therapist and counselor for traumatized people refute this. I was recently discussing this very issue with our dear Elizabeth and fully agree with how she puts it: "The simple truths of the path we are on requires no intermediary between our souls and our Heavenly Father's Divine Love, nor does it require any form of "therapy" or emotional work prior to beginning our soul's yearnings for our Father's Love".

In my own personal experience, and I know this is true for Elizabeth as well, as she is my teacher in this regard, we can choose to call on the Divine Love at any moment to "stand with us" along with any and all distress we experience. The Love transforms, heals and "lifts" any state into which it is invited to enter.

I regard your conversation, Al and Geoff, as an opportunity to clarify meanings, to delve deeper into what these words mean to each of us, and through the exchange, to arrive at deeper understanding or our own and others' meanings. So I thank you both for "hooking me" back into the Forum! I am happy to be back.

Love,
Terry xxxooo

[Geoff]

When Geoff says "if someone is sufficiently damaged by life as to not love themselves, they can't feel the Divine Love" and "need a natural pathway technique to solve that, then they can get the Love" I must say my personal experience with my own inner life and my experiences as an art therapist and counselor for traumatized people refute this. I was recently discussing this very issue with our dear Elizabeth and fully agree with how she puts it: "The simple truths of the path we are on requires no intermediary between our souls and our Heavenly Father's Divine Love, nor does it require any form of "therapy" or emotional work prior to beginning our soul's yearnings for our Father's Love".

In my own personal experience, and I know this is true for Elizabeth as well, as she is my teacher in this regard, we can choose to call on the Divine Love at any moment to "stand with us" along with any and all distress we experience. The Love transforms, heals and "lifts" any state into which it is invited to enter.

Dear Terry,

I am of course interested in your experience here, as also that of Elizabeth, and would value hearing that. My view expressed here is not based on personal experience. It is based on something in the Urantia book I am certain is correct, but which may still not refute your experience. As also, I have observed that there are many following a certain person who are damaged, and seem not to have managed to feel the love. But I also accept entirely they have not yet had the right help in this regard. The paragraph in the Urantia Book I refer to is this:

Mortal man cannot possibly know the infinitude of the heavenly Father. Finite mind cannot think through such an absolute truth or fact. But this same finite human being can actually feel--literally experience--the full and undiminished impact of such an infinite Father's LOVE. Such a love can be truly experienced, albeit while quality of experience is unlimited, quantity of such an experience is strictly limited by the human capacity for spiritual receptivity and by the associated capacity to love the Father in return.

Paper 3 - The Attributes of God

hugs
Geoff

[Geoff]

There are some fundamental things that we disagree on and this has been hashed out in the past so I hope we are not going to waste our time going over these differences.

Dear Al,

Last night we heard from the Master. He referred to this board and asked if we could direct our energies to sharing about positive things we have experienced, and stop talking about issues we disagree on. That being the case, I do not plan to respond to this any further. I have posted in response to Terry here, on something that is useful, and may elicit some discussion of positive responses that we can all use to gain from. But it would suggest this thread's initial subject should not be further pursued, as it is simply hashing out disagreeable areas.

hugs
Geoff

[AlFike]

Thank you Geoff, and thank you Jesus!!!!. I'm all for the positive because it is in our commonalities, we will have unity. The error, if there is any, will fall away in time. Love is stronger.....always. I'm glad to hear that you are getting guidance from the Master. Maybe we should give him a call name here eh ? . Much love to you and Werner....Al