What to tell a beginner?

[Eva]

That's a great message, Geoff -- https://new-birth.net/contemporary-mess ... -mar-2020/. Thanks for sharing it. It should help those doubting that if they are no having certain kinds of physical experiences within a certain time, they are not on the right track.

Here is something I posted on the FB group a few months ago which bears repeating in this context:

Often in this group we share spiritual experiences and some may be wondering why their experiences are not as pronounced as others' experiences and even feel discouraged or feel like they are doing something wrong in praying for God's Love or other aspects of their spiritual practice. This quote that my husband shared from his reading is relevant here. The principle is not new, but it is good to be reminded.

“A frequent problem is that we think, “Although the teachings are perfect, I am not practicing them properly.” We may have thoughts like these because we feel that we are not doing them the way someone else does. Because we are not practicing the way “he” does or “she” does or “they” do, we think, “I am not doing it right.”

Then, gradually, we stop practicing. That is a big problem for us. However, we should be clear that the way each and every person practices any instruction is individual. The way we hear, the way we understand, and the way we express that understanding in action are all individual.

When you put what you hear and study into practice, it will be—and has to be—your own. The way that you practice is not better than another person’s way, nor is it worse. It is exactly the way that it should be for you, and the way that someone else does it is exactly the way that it should be for them.

It is important for us not to lose heart in our way of practicing and to have confidence that we are putting these instructions into effective use in our lives. … We can take great delight in the individuality of our own practice, doing it as often and as effectively as possible.” (Ponlop, Dzogchen. Mind Beyond Death. Shambhala Publications, 2007.)

[Geoff]

“A frequent problem is that we think, “Although the teachings are perfect, I am not practicing them properly.” We may have thoughts like these because we feel that we are not doing them the way someone else does. Because we are not practicing the way “he” does or “she” does or “they” do, we think, “I am not doing it right.”

Dear Eva,

Many years ago I wrote exactly that on a page I began as something to "track" one's progress.

Because I surely did not want to waste ten years because I missed something. Yet that is exactly what happened.

And I know that others in the Divine Love community to this day believe what I believed then. This is the belief that you ONLY need to pray for the Divine Love and the Divine Love will clean you up and make you whole. And now I know that statement is true with "unlimited time", because if we wilfully hold on to actions, beliefs, attitudes and values that are out of harmony with the Love, the Divine Love will not touch these dark parts of our souls. It will not touch them until we wilfully choose to change. That that caused me to waste a lot of time. And I even rejected the concept that was at the basis of he-who-cannot-be-mentioned-here's belief in addressing negative emotions. But fortunately over the last seven years or so Al has channeled this very clearly.

So while I don't accept the way that individual went about that, the notion that you must deliberately seek out your errors and beseech God to heal them is a vital path of soul development. It may not be relevant to a newcomer, as I think these issues really only arise after several years of serious prayer for Divine Love.

hugs
Geoff

[BethM]

... This is the belief that you ONLY need to pray for the Divine Love and the Divine Love will clean you up and make you whole. ... [This] may not be relevant to a newcomer, as I think these issues really only arise after several years of serious prayer for Divine Love.

Actually, I LOVE that you wrote this, as it ties in with the "a ha" I had just a bit ago. The Divine Love path is really about your soul development and far, far less about any material aspects. In the eternity that is to come, our time here on this plane isn't even a blink of an eye, so yes, while the mind etc may come along as your soul grows and grows, this could (will likely?) take a good bit of time as it's not the priority.

In the meantime, if you actually DO have physical and/or mental issues that need worked on, either because they are causing you problems in the present moment or worse, they are interfering with your ability to pray for and/or receive Divine Love, then natural love practices or healings etc may be useful or necessary even for beginners.

[Eva]

Again, Geoff, I totally agree with you re consciously cleaning out the sins out of our lives. In a way, that's what Beth has touched on earlier in this thread re following the "Natural love path" alongside the "Divine Love path". It is supported in this message -- https://new-birth.net/padgetts-messages ... ol-1-pg12/, which says this:

“Now, the way to each of these kingdoms is not the same, although in pursuing the way to one, and that the Celestial Kingdom, the way to the others, must necessarily be followed, or in other words, he who follows the way to the Celestial Kingdom pursues that course which in its pursuit, will cause him to do those things and obey those laws of God that are necessary to establish the Kingdoms on earth and in the spirit world; but he who pursues only the way that leads to the establishment of the kingdom on earth and in the spirit world, cannot possibly become an inhabitant of the Celestial Kingdom.”

This to me confirms that thoughts, words and actions of those on the Divine Love path should largely parallel those on the natural love path and be kind and loving. The difference is not in how we live, but how the soul is affected – transformed into divine substance by the Divine Love or simply purified.

I believe that following the two paths to the outside appearances can be almost indistinguishable. Both paths should reflect the person’s love and care for others, as well as little or no obviously sinful or unkind behaviour. The difference between the two paths is in how the loving and kind actions are powered – through our own efforts and will on the natural love path or through God’s nature residing in and transforming our souls on the Divine Love path.

On both paths, we have to make conscious choices over and over again in responding to situations we find ourselves in. For example, how do we respond to the unkind comment someone made to or about us – do we reciprocate, retaliate, let it go, or even say something nice, giving the person the benefit of the doubt? As our souls are more and more transformed by the Divine Love, kind actions will become more and more second-nature and bad habits will become rarer -- though with conscious practice over time, the same can happen on the natural love path. So the two paths are complementary, but progress can be made faster on the Divine Love path by actively seeking and receiving Divine help. Those who claim to be on the Divine Love path, but are lax about praying for and/or practicing the Love may not act any better than those who don’t even claim to walk the natural love path or any spiritual path because their souls are in stagnation.

If we are not choosing to be loving, we are adding sin and encrustations to our souls, which would over time diminish the flow of God’s Love, so we would be stagnating if not retrogressing. So yes, to make progress in our soul development, we not only need to be getting rid of sin, bad habits and other error that is a part of our lives, but also making right and kind choices as we go along, all the while praying for the Divine Love which will help us to make overcome sinful habits and traits faster.

[AlFike]

This conversation is certainly progressing well. There is no denying the presence of natural love within us. We're born with it. And that part of us progresses with the soul awakened in Divine Love unless we repress that progression with our minds. I don't think that there is a great bias towards natural love within the Divine love community but rather a bias towards mind focused and intellectual beliefs about spiritual progression. We know that abiding spiritual truth comes from the soul but for all of us it starts with the mind. It is that initial immersion into DL that causes the confusion as our minds try to discern and understand this truth. Many get caught up in the semantics and try to integrate past spiritual beliefs with the present re calibrations which come with the experience of prayer for Divine Love. Thus we get variations of beliefs about what Divine Love is that are IMHO mindful rationalizations rather than getting to the deeper understanding of the truth that will in time come from the soul mind rather than the material mind. My personal bias against pursuing natural love beliefs while following the practice of Divine Love is that it muddies the waters. But Geoff is right, in as much as we need to address our minds stuck in unhealthy and contrary patterns of thought and behavior. Being proactive in releasing soul encrustations by sensitizing ourselves to their existence can only speed up our progress as well. It is when the natural love approaches become more important and are emphasized to such an extent that prayer and receiving the Divine Love is way back in the queue that I take exception. But even in this regard sometimes that pursuit and timing of what I call 'emotional work" can take priority over prayer. Its when one gets stuck in this process finding comfort and meaning in emotional release rather than spiritual upliftment that the imbalance takes place.. Our primary objective is prayer for the Love and all else follows from there. When we encounter a belief system that encourages us to go elsewhere then that is where the red flag comes up for me.
I think that when we approach newcomers its important to keep the message clear and focused on receiving Divine Love. If we blend this message with other beliefs, then we are diluting the message and possibly confusing the new comer. Although we do ourselves no favor if we reject other's beliefs and try to correct them, because more often than not this only causes barriers to our message. I like how Jane shared that it took her a while to get the DL truth clearly. She came into our group with many natural love beliefs but we patiently persisted and so did she. We didn't insist on anything but encouraged her and others to pray for God's Love. That consistent message and example plus the ministrations of the Angels and Jane's own soul desires brought things into clear understanding and practice. There are others in our Monday group who also have strong natural love beliefs, yet they feel the condition of love in our circles and keep coming back for more. The potent tool at our disposal for demonstrating the power of God's Love is the atmosphere created in our circles of light that many feel and are drawn to. This consistent condition of love is the result of some of us in the circle focused exclusively on Divine Love. Where else do you get to experience such an atmosphere of God's Love infusing the room so that you can almost cut it with a knife? There are very few circles like this in the world and I'm grateful that we can expand our work through the new Zoom technology so that more can join in with this prayerful condition. Would we reject someone new with different beliefs or understanding of what is going on ? Certainly not, but we don't encourage them to espouse such beliefs in our circles either. If this way doesn't fit, then they will go seeking for other ways and probably other platforms to share their beliefs. We can't let expectations of large crowds and universal acceptance of our message overshadow the guided work of spreading the news of this truth. In the flow of God's guidance and opportunities to share and demonstrate the truth, we can reach a number of people but the goal is to keep ourselves open to that guidance, be clear and forthright in our message and above all be loving and accepting. God will do the rest for those who can get through their mental biases to the rich core of a soul fulfilled with receiving God's Love. Patience, humility and persistence gets us there. Much love........Al

[BethM]

It is when the natural love approaches become more important and are emphasized to such an extent that prayer and receiving the Divine Love is way back in the queue that I take exception.

Yeah, I don't think that anyone is arguing for this. I know I'm not. But what I am starting to realize is that the Divine Love path is largely (primarily) about soul transformation. If there is any effect on the mind, it is only way down the road when there is sufficient Divine Love for the soul to begin its path to ascendancy over the mind. And if you're not fortunate to be able to perceive your soul, all of this happens completely in the background and apparently can take years (or even decades).

And like I said on FB, there are 24 hours in a day. So if you have need for emotional work and/or focusing on mind issues, it sounds to me like looking for efforts that can complement your Divine Love prayers makes a lot of sense ... that is, unless you're okay with it taking a long, long, long time.

Perfectly fine for the official DLSF position to be a more purist one. But in practice, it's not something that makes sense to me where I am right now. I would probably feel very different if I had been getting direct spiritual guidance since I was 20-something, or if in the 18 months that I had been praying for Divine Love, I had more of a conscious awareness of my soul being transformed. But from what I have been able to determine, there is no real guidance for someone who doesn't already have these gifts or awareness except pray more. Too bad that prayer isn't as effective without faith, and in order to get faith you need to count on your not-as-effective prayers to get you there.

So it may well be that realizing that Law of Attraction applies in both a Divine Love and natural love way -- consciously working on engaging in non-Divine Love efforts that support the "elevation of our thoughts and feelings in the direction of truth, love, beauty and goodness" -- is well worth complementing Divine Love prayer efforts.

I guess I won't know on this plane if it was good, bad, or indifferent. But it will certainly give my conscious mind something to do while I wait for a glimmer of awareness of what's going on soul-wise!

[Eva]

Hi Al,

I was wondering what specifically are the "natural love beliefs" which in your opinion don't belong on the Divine Love path?

Based on the Padgett messages, the most important thing and the only thing for us to reach the Celestial Kingdom is the new birth which comes about by praying for and receiving the Divine Love. However, alongside that is following the moral laws and laws of love and harmony that those on the natural love path also need to follow. How can we become or are becoming transformed by the Divine Love if our lives engage in unloving habits, actions and thoughts?

Here are two clear-cut excerpts:
https://new-birth.net/padgetts-messages ... ol-1-pg20/
The only way then is simply this: “That men shall believe with all the sincerity of their minds and souls that this Great Love of the Father is waiting to be bestowed upon each and all of them, and that when they come to the Father in faith and earnest aspirations, this love will not be withholden from them, and in addition to this belief, pray with all the earnestness and longings of their souls that he open up their souls to the inflowing of this Love, and that then may come to them the Holy Spirit to bring this Love into their souls in such abundance that their souls may be transformed into the very Essence of the Father’s Love.”

https://new-birth.net/padgetts-messages ... ol-1-pg12/
"Now, the way to each of these kingdoms is not the same, although in pursuing the way to one, and that the Celestial Kingdom, the way to the others, must necessarily be followed, or in other words, he who follows the way to the Celestial Kingdom pursues that course which in its pursuit, will cause him to do those things and obey those laws of God that are necessary to establish the Kingdoms on earth and in the spirit world; but he who pursues only the way that leads to the establishment of the kingdom on earth and in the spirit world, cannot possibly become an inhabitant of the Celestial Kingdom."

Love,
Eva

[AlFike]

Not sure what you are saying here Eva as your statements seem to back my hypothesis. Following the path of natural love is a given since we are all born into it. Its the emphasis on what I call natural love beliefs, anything from eastern thought and religion to erroneous Christian doctrine is what I'm suggesting we stay away from if they become a cornerstone in our belief system. The law of attraction does work in our favour if we focus on Divine Love truth. Conversely, if we blend other beliefs into the mix we are drawing in those spirits who may be contrary to Divine love. Its a simple equation but I don't believe that any of us are purely and completely on the Divine path. Inevitably other things are a part of it and some even are contrary to this truth. Being human we tend to go where our nose leads us and if it reinforces our mindful beliefs then we stick with it. I'm suggesting that with soul awareness these errors in belief will fall away in time. That is a personal journey which I have no business in assessing as erroneous or not. Its up to the individual how they interpret truth which is mostly derived from mindful analysis than soulful knowings at this stage of our progress. I am definitely not putting myself as the one who can perceive the difference other than obvious error. We can all see that more or less. Hope that clarifies things for you Eva. God bless........Al

[BethM]

The law of attraction does work in our favour if we focus on Divine Love truth. Conversely, if we blend other beliefs into the mix we are drawing in those spirits who may be contrary to Divine love.

Hmmm. Here's what Jesus said to Padgett (emphasis mine):

Among God’s laws, which never change and which work impartially, is the great law of attraction; and it works in the case of all mortals and spirits, and never rests. And the great principle of this law is, that like attracts like, and the unlike repulses the unlike. So man must know that as he is - I mean in his state of mind and soul - so necessarily will be his companions of those who desire his association, and, hence, he should realize this important truth and all that it implies.

If his thoughts and deeds are evil, he will attract those spirits or mortals who have similar thoughts and deeds, and who will not help him to higher things, but who will retard his progress towards his first estate; and if his thoughts and deeds are good, then his associates will only be those of like qualities, who can and will help him in his progress.

Every effort to create good thoughts strengthens the desires and will in that direction, and assists the coming of other good thoughts, for with these efforts comes the help of these unseen influences, and the repulsion of the influences of the retarding forces.

My read from this is that it is the quality of my thoughts that assists or may slow my progress. So in fact, for the many months that I've been frustrated about my lack of apparent progress because I didn't see the light in three weeks, or three months, or even 18 months, I've probably been drawing in spirits who have been contrary to the very thing I've been praying for! Man, that's a huge bummer. But lesson learned, right?

So my argument is that there are things other than praying for Divine Love than can assist us in the present moment with the quality of our thoughts so that we can attract only the highest of spirits. I'm not saying that the solution is to stick with a belief in the Eucharist or following the Buddha, but there's a LOT in the natural love world that can help us with our material bodies and minds.

And if it's folly, well, I guess that's my mistake to make. In the meantime, I'm going to do more exploring, as I currently feel strongly that in the conscious effort to remove some of these conditions that aren't in harmony, I will actually be helping my efforts on the Divine Love path as well.

[BethM]

And I want to come back to something Geoff said (emphasis mine):

And add to that, when we first reach out to God, we reach out in NATURAL LOVE. It is in fact the absence of sufficient natural love that can cause a barrier.

This definitely rings true for me. I think that part of the challenge of asking for Divine Love is feeling worthy of it, of trusting that God is actually the God of Love. I think on his site Geoff says that if this is an issue, then the first step is to remove this as a barrier by praying for it. But I cannot see why, in addition to prayer, it's not helpful looking to other supports -- whether it's therapy, doing a Loving Kindness meditation, or some somatic practice that helps you learn to be in your body with your emotions (yoga, tai chi, etc).

It's a big world, and we're all individuals! And so I go back to what I originally posted, and I think it still holds:

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Pray every day (at least once, preferably more) and:

1. Ask for the inflowing of Divine Love into your soul. Law of Prayer
2. Ask for the release of all conditions not in harmony with God's Love. Seretta Kem message, Law of Harmony
3. Ask for protection from dark spirits. Perfect Prayer
4. Offer gratitude and praise for God's blessings, healings, and guidance. Perfect Prayer

In addition to specific prayer, "engage in spiritual disciplines that support the development of our souls and the elevation of our thoughts and feelings in the direction of truth, love, beauty and goodness. When we do these things we attract positive spiritual influences to support us in the realization of our aspirations. Whenever we choose to seek God’s Love, we attract the very presence of God, bright spirits and angels of Divine Love who desire to support us in our efforts and expressions." Bill's book (Divine Love Essentials, pgs 22 & 23), Law of Attraction
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Your spiritual disciplines may be different than mine, but I think that ultimately, the question is whether or not it elevates our "thoughts and feelings in the direction of truth, love, beauty and goodness." If it does, I don't think it matters if it's a DLSF circle or an Eastern meditation!